Orlando shooting

[HoustonRaven]

I attended an active shooter training class yesterday. I signed up for it in response to Orlando, as I have never had any formal training on how to deal with active shootings.

One of my instructors is a former FBI Firearms instructor who said he has contacts with the Orlando PD. He was saying the initial police response was dreadful and the first three officers were firing blind into and across the club's dance floor. The disco-type lighting was compounding the problem. They'd hear someone firing, move to that side of the club, fire off a bunch of rounds themselves, etc and all the while, people were scrambling from one side of the club to the other, thanks to all of the first floor fire exits were dead-bolted by the owners. Apparently, they had a hard time keeping minors and drugs out of the club.

So think about that. Blind officers can't see their targets, can barely hear anything over the music, firing blind into a crowd that's running back and forth in front of them as they fired. It's his belief that once the dust settles and we know the facts, he wouldn't be surprised if over a dozen or so bar patrons were actually killed by law enforcement and not the active shooter.

[lovefootball]

I attended an active shooter training class yesterday. I signed up for it in response to Orlando, as I have never had any formal training on how to deal with active shootings.

One of my instructors is a former FBI Firearms instructor who said he has contacts with the Orlando PD. He was saying the initial police response was dreadful and the first three officers were firing blind into and across the club's dance floor. The disco-type lighting was compounding the problem. They'd hear someone firing, move to that side of the club, fire off a bunch of rounds themselves, etc and all the while, people were scrambling from one side of the club to the other, thanks to all of the first floor fire exits were dead-bolted by the owners. Apparently, they had a hard time keeping minors and drugs out of the club.

So think about that. Blind officers can't see their targets, can barely hear anything over the music, firing blind into a crowd that's running back and forth in front of them as they fired. It's his belief that once the dust settles and we know the facts, he wouldn't be surprised if over a dozen or so bar patrons were actually killed by law enforcement and not the active shooter.

Wouldn't surprise me at all, the final investigation results of the shooting will be the "tell all", concerning accountability.

[JAB1985]

I attended an active shooter training class yesterday. I signed up for it in response to Orlando, as I have never had any formal training on how to deal with active shootings.

One of my instructors is a former FBI Firearms instructor who said he has contacts with the Orlando PD. He was saying the initial police response was dreadful and the first three officers were firing blind into and across the club's dance floor. The disco-type lighting was compounding the problem. They'd hear someone firing, move to that side of the club, fire off a bunch of rounds themselves, etc and all the while, people were scrambling from one side of the club to the other, thanks to all of the first floor fire exits were dead-bolted by the owners. Apparently, they had a hard time keeping minors and drugs out of the club.

So think about that. Blind officers can't see their targets, can barely hear anything over the music, firing blind into a crowd that's running back and forth in front of them as they fired. It's his belief that once the dust settles and we know the facts, he wouldn't be surprised if over a dozen or so bar patrons were actually killed by law enforcement and not the active shooter.

welcome back.

it wouldnt surprise me at all if thats the case. It certainly didnt sound like a place that had clear line of sight, which i believe is always taught to have before pulling the trigger. Thats what they did wrong, but what was the classes advice in that situation? Im sure the music and lighting would be a problem no matter what.

[HoustonRaven]

welcome back.

Thanks!

it wouldnt surprise me at all if thats the case. It certainly didnt sound like a place that had clear line of sight, which i believe is always taught to have before pulling the trigger. Thats what they did wrong, but what was the classes advice in that situation? Im sure the music and lighting would be a problem no matter what.

They didn't really get into what could have been done differently. They did point out that this was unlike most other mass shooting in that it went from an Active Shooter Response ("ASR") to a barricade / hostage situation to a police shootout, back to an ASR and then finally a barricade situation again. PD's simply don't train for that kind of transition. Typically it's either an ASR or a hostage / barricade and when force is applied to the suspect, whether it be from the police or from someone who is armed (we covered about a dozen active shootings that were stopped / slowed by armed citizens) they either give up, opt for 'suicide by cop' or kill themselves.

The fact this guy re-engaged the police and / or the people in the club multiple times was a new wrinkle. It was his belief that we will see a shift from police providing an immediate response back to the days where the police will wait until an overwhelming level of force is on hand (i.e. SWAT) before entering.

[BigPlayReceiver]

Welcome back HR.

And brother I told my wife that morning: No football watching for me for a whole month if they fail to find OPD rounds in at least 3 victims.

...and that was when the body count was 20.