Trump vs Sanders. The End of the Republic??

**filthflarnfilth** · 01-26-2016, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Greg

What made America great? Liberty. Is that going to be our downfall?

Liberty? Whose Liberty? That's the issue that the right fails to come to grips with, and then viciously attacks folks who point it out. That's the disconnect that going to erupt between the Trump and Sanders camp.

**NCRAVEN** · 01-26-2016, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by filthflarnfilth

Liberty? Whose Liberty? That's the issue that the right fails to come to grips with, and then viciously attacks folks who point it out. That's the disconnect that going to erupt between the Trump and Sanders camp.

**filthflarnfilth** · 01-26-2016, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Confused? A house divided cannot stand, and if you haven't noticed, this country is divided and you have folks calling for constitutional conventions in Texas for secession. Between the socialist and "patriots" dominos are falling and we are about to be split into like a guard tackle combo block.

**wickedsolo** · 01-26-2016, 04:05 PM

What bothers me about Sanders is how out of touch he seems to be.

Using Denmark and other Nordic countries as the litmus test for how socialism can be successful while completely disregarding that those countries' total population is roughly the size of New York City is baffling. The US is far too diverse and populated for socialism to be successful. Furthermore, many of those nations he harkens to have major issues that come with socialism. Now, I'm not saying what we have going on here in the US is the right way to do things, but at least here you can make something of yourself if you put in the sweat equity.

Furthermore, the fact that he seems to think that income tax rates can be hiked up to 70,80, and even 90% without citizens being impact is absurd. His schtick is that the super wealthy are too wealthy and they need to be brought back down to earth. Hey you old fucker, the super wealthy are the super wealthy for a reason. They've figured out tax loopholes and ways to move money around to evade the US government. A lot of their money is overseas and can't be touched by the US government. So, all he'd really be doing is fuck the middle class even harder than they already are.

Lastly, considering we have all of these awkward relationships with countries in the Middle East, I'm not so sure they'd be too willing to work with us whilst having a Jewish President.

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**darb72** · 01-27-2016, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

What bothers me about Sanders is how out of touch he seems to be.

Using Denmark and other Nordic countries as the litmus test for how socialism can be successful while completely disregarding that those countries' total population is roughly the size of New York City is baffling. The US is far too diverse and populated for socialism to be successful. Furthermore, many of those nations he harkens to have major issues that come with socialism. Now, I'm not saying what we have going on here in the US is the right way to do things, but at least here you can make something of yourself if you put in the sweat equity.

Furthermore, the fact that he seems to think that income tax rates can be hiked up to 70,80, and even 90% without citizens being impact is absurd. His schtick is that the super wealthy are too wealthy and they need to be brought back down to earth. Hey you old fucker, the super wealthy are the super wealthy for a reason. They've figured out tax loopholes and ways to move money around to evade the US government. A lot of their money is overseas and can't be touched by the US government. So, all he'd really be doing is fuck the middle class even harder than they already are.

Lastly, considering we have all of these awkward relationships with countries in the Middle East, I'm not so sure they'd be too willing to work with us whilst having a Jewish President.

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This election cycle is completely fucked. I'm almost rather have no president for four years than any of the three most likely candidates.

I do think Sanders missed his chance when he flat out said he was going to raise taxes. The inability of the voting public is something I've long railed against, but in this case it helps. All anybody is going to hear is "I will raise taxes." That's not a statement to get you elected.

**wickedsolo** · 01-27-2016, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by darb72

This election cycle is completely fucked. I'm almost rather have no president for four years than any of the three most likely candidates.

I do think Sanders missed his chance when he flat out said he was going to raise taxes. The inability of the voting public is something I've long railed against, but in this case it helps. All anybody is going to hear is "I will raise taxes." That's not a statement to get you elected.

Very true, but for some reason you have people rolling around with "Feel the Bern" shirts on. I don't get it. Do they somehow think that they won't be impacted by tax hikes? Do they really not understand that "free" services like healthcare and education aren't viable over any extended period of time?

I look at his tax plan and relatively speaking, it's not terribly far off from some others I've seen, but is Sanders really naive enough to think that super rich will succumb to nearly 60% tax rates?

For the life of me, I don't get what is so fucking complicated (and unfair?) about a flat income tax rate. The Rich will pay more than the poor simply because 20% of $10,000,000 is more than 20% of 10,000. How does this not compute? A flat tax is probably the most fair way to tax everyone's income because it ensures that everyone pays the same percentage of their income.

**filthflarnfilth** · 01-27-2016, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Very true, but for some reason you have people rolling around with "Feel the Bern" shirts on. I don't get it. Do they somehow think that they won't be impacted by tax hikes? Do they really not understand that "free" services like healthcare and education aren't viable over any extended period of time?

I look at his tax plan and relatively speaking, it's not terribly far off from some others I've seen, but is Sanders really naive enough to think that super rich will succumb to nearly 60% tax rates?

For the life of me, I don't get what is so fucking complicated (and unfair?) about a flat income tax rate. The Rich will pay more than the poor simply because 20% of $10,000,000 is more than 20% of 10,000. How does this not compute? A flat tax is probably the most fair way to tax everyone's income because it ensures that everyone pays the same percentage of their income.

You are absolutely correct. And that's why people should be alarmed. This nation is not a homogeneous society and there have been too many disenfranchised populations for the socialism Sanders is peddling. Sure he is correct in pointing out some of the inequities that exists, but sucking blood from the stone ain't the remedy.

So if he wins the "base" is going to act the MF fool, and if Trump wins the peasants are going to defecate EBT bricks. The US no longer is galvanized by religion, and with the proliferation of divisive and combustible social media, I fear the worst.

**wickedsolo** · 01-27-2016, 11:12 PM

It's hard to take a career politician seriously that compares a country with 5 million to a nation of over 320 million.

Talk about apples to oranges...

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**JAB1985** · 01-28-2016, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

For the life of me, I don't get what is so fucking complicated (and unfair?) about a flat income tax rate. The Rich will pay more than the poor simply because 20% of $10,000,000 is more than 20% of 10,000. How does this not compute? A flat tax is probably the most fair way to tax everyone's income because it ensures that everyone pays the same percentage of their income.

while im not against a flat rate, the problem is 20% of 10mil is certainly a lot more than 20% of 10000, But in terms of impact 20% of 10000 impacts quality of life far greater. If you think we have income inequality now, a flat tax rate will only perpetuate that. Im in favor of simplifying the tax code towards a more flat tax system, but I think it still needs some tiers once you start getting into the super rich and super poor. if 98% of americans are at the same rate, I think thats good, but Id still have no problem with the 1% of the extremes not being taxed and being taxed heavier. allows a poor family to feed their families a little more and a rich person could still go buy a mcclaren in "straight cash" tomorrow.

eliminating loopholes is a problem. Having a friend of a friend that does accounting for some big companies and super rich, the way you simply can move money around to avoid paying for taxes is ridiculous. which is why, most of those super rich, arent even paying their share of the taxes as spelled out currently anyway. flat tax, no loopholes, would be great, but than guys like buddy will probably be out of business, since it should be pretty cut and dry.

**filthflarnfilth** · 01-28-2016, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

while im not against a flat rate, the problem is 20% of 10mil is certainly a lot more than 20% of 10000, But in terms of impact 20% of 10000 impacts quality of life far greater. If you think we have income inequality now, a flat tax rate will only perpetuate that. Im in favor of simplifying the tax code towards a more flat tax system, but I think it still needs some tiers once you start getting into the super rich and super poor. if 98% of americans are at the same rate, I think thats good, but Id still have no problem with the 1% of the extremes not being taxed and being taxed heavier. allows a poor family to feed their families a little more and a rich person could still go buy a mcclaren in "straight cash" tomorrow.

eliminating loopholes is a problem. Having a friend of a friend that does accounting for some big companies and super rich, the way you simply can move money around to avoid paying for taxes is ridiculous. which is why, most of those super rich, arent even paying their share of the taxes as spelled out currently anyway. flat tax, no loopholes, would be great, but than guys like buddy will probably be out of business, since it should be pretty cut and dry.

Can't tax anything if half the states leave the Union.

**blah3** · 01-28-2016, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

while im not against a flat rate, the problem is 20% of 10mil is certainly a lot more than 20% of 10000, But in terms of impact 20% of 10000 impacts quality of life far greater. If you think we have income inequality now, a flat tax rate will only perpetuate that. Im in favor of simplifying the tax code towards a more flat tax system, but I think it still needs some tiers once you start getting into the super rich and super poor. if 98% of americans are at the same rate, I think thats good, but Id still have no problem with the 1% of the extremes not being taxed and being taxed heavier. allows a poor family to feed their families a little more and a rich person could still go buy a mcclaren in "straight cash" tomorrow.

eliminating loopholes is a problem. Having a friend of a friend that does accounting for some big companies and super rich, the way you simply can move money around to avoid paying for taxes is ridiculous. which is why, most of those super rich, arent even paying their share of the taxes as spelled out currently anyway. flat tax, no loopholes, would be great, but than guys like buddy will probably be out of business, since it should be pretty cut and dry.

Easily taken care of the way it is now. You simply don't pay tax on the first amount of income. Set it to 1.5X the poverty rate or something like that. Problem solved. It's not hard and there's no reason not to do it.
Heck you even have multiple republican candidates campaigning for it.

**wickedsolo** · 01-28-2016, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by blah3

Easily taken care of the way it is now. You simply don't pay tax on the first amount of income. Set it to 1.5X the poverty rate or something like that. Problem solved. It's not hard and there's no reason not to do it.
Heck you even have multiple republican candidates campaigning for it.

Good point.

Trump's tax plan isn't too bad.

0% if you make 20k or less.
15-20% 21-75k
20-25% 76-150k
25% 151k+

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