Lack of Quality 4th/5th/6th year Starters on Ravens.... A possible reason for poor start.

[ravensnhokies]

The biggest problem I see with the Ravens is the lack of good players on the team in their 4th/5th/6th years of experience (Superstars would even be better). That is the sweet spot when NFL players are still at their athletic peaks, but also when their football smarts have reached a level where they really understand what they are doing out there. If you look at the team they really only have Jimmy Smith that’s fits that profile. KO is a very good player also (but likely gone in 2016). But that’s about it. Unfortunately, the Ravens have a team composed of a lot of older guys that are past their athletic primes and then very young inexperienced guys. If you compare the Ravens to the recent Top Tier Playoff teams, we are lacking those very good 5-6th year guys.....

Seattle – Wagner, Sherman, Bennett, Chancellor, Graham, Thomas, Irvin
Pats – Jones, Sheard, McCourty, Edelman, Gronk, Vollmer
Broncos – Miller, Harris, Ward, Thomas, Jackson, Sanders
Steelers – Brown, Pouncey, Gilbert, DeCastro
Packers – Shields, Cobb, Raji, Matthews, Sitton, Lang
Bengals – Green, Boling, Zeitler, Atkins, Dunlap
Cowboys – Smith, Dez (Two Superstars)

Not looking at QBs, b/c you obviously need a franchise one to win a SB which the Ravens have

Ok so this lends you to think its poor drafting in the past. Well yes and no.

2010 was a flat DISASTER. The Ravens missed out on so many great players considering the team needs. Its really sad. We all know... Dez, Gronk, Tate, Sanders, Graham, Atkins (We got fat ass Cody), and Brown (We got Reed). There are a lot of other 2010 guys that are solid players that would have looked good in purple in 2015. Pitta and Jones turned out good, but they arent playing for the Ravens in 2015. The rest of the draft was a shit sandwich.

2011 was really good year by the FO. Both Smiths and McPhee is a really good bounty. Unfortunately, the Ravens had to part ways with Torrey and Pernell for that 2nd contract, which is a major problem (other bad contracts led to this).

2012.... I’d say its pretty poor. Only KO is quality.

I think we are all trying to reason the 0-2 start. This is where I’d look at first. The Ravens really need the young guys to grow up quick. Like how 2nd year Crockett is playing. That has to be their salvation if they want to salvage the season.

Sidenote: B/c of the lack of experience on the team, Pees has gotta simplify his complicated scheme. Sure it may not be ideal in his mind, but if the players do not know what to do, you gotta make if easier for them. At least, they’ll be in the right position and then they can use their athletic prowess to make a good play. Yes coverage make-up speed is lacking, but its better than being completely out of position during a play like how they were destroyed Sunday.

[HoustonRaven]

Free agency.

You can't keep everybody in the cap era.

Most are going to go where the money is available.

[JimZipCode]

I think we are all trying to reason the 0-2 start. This is where I’d look at first.

I'd look at the schedule. A SB contender and a much-improved team, on the road.

[Ravenswintitle]

as bad as things are, we were a couple dropped passes and a blown PI call away from winning either game. That's just the NFL

[wickedsolo]

I do think the Ravens have had a tough time in a couple of drafts and we're seeing the results of that by having to rely on UDFA players and low round picks at key positions.

However, it's easy to sit back and go "we drafted Cody when we could have drafted <insert player's name here>". It also doesn't take into consideration the context of that draft and the team makeup during that time.

Personally, I think the team needs to do better in the scouting department. I dont know how they conduct business there, but they seem to be REALLY good at scouting certain positions and really poor at scouting others.

The big reason for the issues is that they aren't able to hit on any mid-to-late round picks at receiver, running back, or on the OL. (I consider mid-round picks 3,4, and 5). When was the last real mid-round gem the Ravens have found on the offensive side of the ball? Rick Wagner comes to mind, but I don't see a lot else. Maybe Crockett Gilmore?

2015 - Still up for grabs.
2014 - Lorenzo Taliaferro, John Urschel. [Still relatively unknown]
2013 - KJ (good player, not great), Ricky Wagner* (starter quality)
2012 - Bernard Pierce, Gino Gradkowski
2011 - Jah Reid, Tandon Doss
2010 - Ed Dickson, Dennis Pitta*, David Reed
2009 - Davon Drew

I mean, this is something that every team deals with. I don't dispute that. However, one has to recognize the cascading impact from basically going 6-7 drafts with only landing 2 (3 if you count KJ) starter level players on the offensive side of the ball. By Tandon Doss not panning out, that meant the Ravens have had to go out and spend for players like Boldin and Senior. By Gino not panning out, the Ravens had to go out and trade/sign Jeremy Zuttah. And so on.

[wickedsolo]

Free agency.

You can't keep everybody in the cap era.

Most are going to go where the money is available.

This is true, which is why it is imperative to try and draft players that you know are going to be able to play right away (starter, depth, ST's, or otherwise).

[Jsmoove]

as bad as things are, we were a couple dropped passes and a blown PI call away from winning either game. That's just the NFL

this is true too

[Jsmoove]

This is true, which is why it is imperative to try and draft players that you know are going to be able to play right away (starter, depth, ST's, or otherwise).

yess! this 3 year "waiting period" they have for rookies I don't understand at times, i get young guys need to develop but the only way to get better is to get real game reps. Very rare have we seen rookies start right away under Harbs, Mosely is probably one of the rare ones.

[ravensnhokies]

In 2009, Kelly Gregg was really slowing down, so they did have a draft 'need' for his replacement. Until drafting the pocket collapsing Jernigan, the teams philosophy was always taking a running stopping NT/DT. Cody perfectly fit that Gregg replacement profile on paper. And we all know how Oz has a hard-on for any Bama player. I do not understand why the Ravens thought that way, b/c their best defenses had Sam Adams & Trevor Pryce. Both were awesome at collapsing the pocket.

I agree ultimately it goes back to scouting.

[wickedsolo]

yess! this 3 year "waiting period" they have for rookies I don't understand at times, i get young guys need to develop but the only way to get better is to get real game reps. Very rare have we seen rookies start right away under Harbs, Mosely is probably one of the rare ones.

I think that's true in some cases, but not all.

Elam played a lot and started his rookie year. Webb played a lot and started some his rookie year.

Carl Davis is out there this year. Maxx Williams is out there this year. Perriman will be out there when he's healthy. Pierce, Rice, KO, and many others all started and/or saw significant time their rookie year. Flacco has started every game since his rookie year.

I think if the player is good enough, they play. If not, they don't. If the player isn't good enough (Art Brown) then there is something else going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Furthermore, if the player isn't good enough to start or earn significant playing time right away then (IMO) that is a failure of the scouting department.

I'm all for taking gems and project players later in the draft, but at some point you hope you can hit on a few here and there. The Ravens have just not been that good (or lucky) at hitting on mid-round guys and late round guys on the offensive side of the ball.

[GOTA]

Some of those guys weren't drafted by the teams listed. They were very expensive free agents.

Michael Bennett was drafted by Buccaneers not the Seahawks. He was also drafted in 2009

Jabal Sheard was a Brown until 2 games ago. Now he's a Patriot

Emmanual Sanders was drafted by the Steelers

Is the issue the quality of the drafts or lack of keeping our free agents or signing others?

[Jsmoove]

I think that's true in some cases, but not all.

Elam played a lot and started his rookie year. Webb played a lot and started some his rookie year.

Carl Davis is out there this year. Maxx Williams is out there this year. Perriman will be out there when he's healthy. Pierce, Rice, KO, and many others all started and/or saw significant time their rookie year. Flacco has started every game since his rookie year.

I think if the player is good enough, they play. If not, they don't. If the player isn't good enough (Art Brown) then there is something else going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Furthermore, if the player isn't good enough to start or earn significant playing time right away then (IMO) that is a failure of the scouting department.

I'm all for taking gems and project players later in the draft, but at some point you hope you can hit on a few here and there. The Ravens have just not been that good (or lucky) at hitting on mid-round guys and late round guys on the offensive side of the ball.

I agree, however, I think their hand was forced though when it came to guys like Elam, Maxx and Carl Davis, with the exit of players they needed/need these young guys to step in and step up, I am sure if there was a vet ahead of them they would see little playing time. Man it just seem like back in the Billick days rookies would come in and make a splash early.