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03-09-2015, 01:52 PM #38Pro Bowl Poster
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Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco
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03-09-2015, 02:11 PM #39Regular 1st Stringer
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Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco
Too young to have watched Bert Jones actually play but everyone I know who did say him compares him to John Elway in the way he could scramble, had a bazooka for a right arm and wore #7. He took an awful beating in his later years that led to the demise of his career. Aaron Schatz has long made the case that Jones' 1976 season is one of the five best QB seasons of all-time. In many ways, Bert Jones was ahead of his time: his best years were in an era when the Mel Blount's of the world could mug receivers with impunity (the 5-yard chuck rule wasn't instituted until 1978, right when Jones' body broke down). If he'd have come along 30 years later when the receivers could run scott-free through the secondary & the QB is protected he would have put up some incredible stats.
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03-09-2015, 02:50 PM #40Regular 1st Stringer
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Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco
It's always so hard to compare players from different eras. That said, it's obvious jones would've thrived in the pattycake game of today. He could do it all and was very mobile once the play broke down.
Flacco's weakness in Jones era would of course be his lack of mobility. He may not have held up too well in the old kill the QB times. They could both zing the 30 yarder with the best of them. I think Jones
threw a more accurate long ball. Not really sure about the short stuff, though I think Lydell Mitchell caught quite a few balls out of the backfield.
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03-09-2015, 02:59 PM #41Veteran Poster
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Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco
Jones had a big arm like Flacco and could make all the throws. He was more mobile and more animated. He also played in an era when QB's could get mauled without much repercussion so the durability comparison is tougher to make. Ditto the manhandling of receivers. Overall, both good QB's. I think Jones would also be a star playing under today's rules. Whether Flacco could have been one in the 70's is more speculative, IMO.
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03-09-2015, 02:59 PM #42Pro Bowl Poster
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Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco
I'm of your generation too AF and I agree that Bert had one of the strongest arms that I have ever seen (maybe even a little stronger than even Joe or Rodgers). However, he did not have the touch that either Joe or John had on the football and never did. He also was a true QB gunslinger like Elway and I was there on 33rd Street when he won the last game and the Division Title for the Colts vs. the Pats. And, yes, he never won a playoff game against anyone either.
However, his biggest weakness was something he had no control over: Irsay, Thomas, and Terrible Ted! We all have talked over how bad Irsay and Thomas were but I think that Terrible Ted did more to ruin Bert than anyone. Ted constantly had his teams play not to lose and too often they got beat consistently both during the regular season (against Dallas, New England, and Denver for example) and the playoffs. Ted would never open up his offense until the Colts were way behind and too often it came back to haunt us. He did the same thing in the Oakland playoff game. Bert did next to nothing during the first 3 Qtrs and, surprise, surprise, Ted opened up the offense in the 4th QTR and Bert looked great. Ted also hated playing rookies and stayed with his veterans way too long (playing Mitchell over Lee for example). Lastly, he babyed Jones which led Jones into doing a lot of stupid things on the field that got him injured, created bad blood between players, and did not help him to work on correcting weaknesses in his game (like constantly throwing the ball too hard). If Bert had the owner, GM and coach of the Ravens behind him rather than the Colt's "Three Stooges", he could have been one of the greatest QBs of all time.
What a waste of a great talent!
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Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco
I said led not score 31 pts. He still kept moving the offense and took it to 2OT.
No QB is gonna win when your defense gives up 37-40 pts pr PO game and
Bert still got them there, easy division or not. The Colts still keep making all
these POs and won a SB in an easy division.
Ravens got into the POs this year with a deleted secondary thanks to an
easy schedule. Things happen.
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Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco
I watched Jones as a kid, and at the time, he was among the most gifted passers in the NFL, when it came to pure passing ability. It was really a 3 year burst for him, once he "got it", then came the injuries, the bad teams, and the trade. He did take some shots, but so has Flacco despite playing in an era where the QB's are more protected. There is no question in my mind that Flacco is more durable - his frame alone dictates that much. Jones just really couldn't stay healthy, but he might have in this era, hard to say. Just because the QB's are protected doesn't mean they don't get hit, and hit hard. It's not like ligaments and bones were stronger in the 70's.
While it's true that the playoff losses were generally team efforts, Jones played very poorly in them as well. He seemed to shrink in the big games, unlike some of the contemporaries like Stabler, Bradshaw and Staubach who came up big in the big moments, even if their overall stats were pedestrian like Bradshaw's and Stabler. In the playoffs, there is no comparison - Joe is head and shoulders above Bert, he's one of the all-time greats(in the playoffs).
Arm strength, I dunno, probably similar. Jones had a cannon, and was really accurate on deep bombs. He had no touch though, threw WAY too hard on short passes. I was just watching the replay of the Pats-Ravens game today during lunch, and Joe has developed remarkable touch, and can feather passes into the tightest of spaces(see TD #3 to Daniels). Joe is much better throwing on the run too, that was not Jones strength, but he was probably a little more mobile.
While ability might be up for debate, as far as who is the 2nd best QB in Baltimore's NFL history, that's Flacco, and it's not even close.
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03-09-2015, 03:35 PM #45Pro Bowl Poster
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Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco
I love Joe and wouldn't trade him even up for any other quarterback in the league. But if you could bring back the Bert Jones of 1975 and suit him up as a Raven, Joe would be holding the clipboard!
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03-09-2015, 03:44 PM #46Pro Bowl Poster
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Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco
Perhaps there's a fine line difference between "better" and "greater".
Statistically and skillwise, Jones might be the "better" quarterback on paper. But Joe's already got the legacy that Bert Jones never had. Even if Joe never sniffs Canton, he'll always be remembered for the Mile High Miracle and the 2012 postseason, and of course the ring and Super Bowl MVP award.
Of course, Joe's got the benefit of working under Biscotti and Ozzie, while Bert Jones was cursed with Irsay. So it's as much a matter of circumstance as anything. But if you were to ask football fans outside of Baltimore who remember both Jones and Flacco play, my guess is that Flacco will be the bigger name.
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03-09-2015, 04:37 PM #47
Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco
No "they" won't as I was 12-16 when Bert was big here and my dad had season tickets to the Colts for us.
They are comparable. Both had big arms, weren't mobile by the standards of guys like Young or the recent batch, and could throw deep pretty well.
As much as I love Bert he did not have the ability to win the big game in the clutch. The Colts flamed out in the first round each of the three times they made the playoffs.
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03-09-2015, 06:20 PM #48Regular 1st Stringer
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Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco
Sitting low in the endzone seats, saw Jones throw a missle to Glen Shake and Bake Doughty on a slant from like seven yards out for a touchdown. Doughty made a hands catch...stuck like glue. To this day, I don't know how he caught that ball.
Last edited by KbubbaK; 03-09-2015 at 09:07 PM.
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