"elevating those around you" - QB rhetoric

**bt12483** · 12-09-2013, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

And I still don't see the problem.

Starting to sound as though you're cherry picking articles, ignoring others to make your point.

go find me an article that talks about flacco elevating brown.

Bigplayreceiver has shown above...not many UDFA WRs have contributed like brown has. No one is even talking about brown. Or flaccos impact on brown.

**Ravenswintitle** · 12-09-2013, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by bt12483

I am a biased Ravens homer...

We can agree on this one

**HoustonRaven** · 12-09-2013, 03:52 PM

The interwebs is a buzz with news articles giving praise the Flacco and / or Brown ...

From Fox Sports ... http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/p...-ending-120813

"Talk about the skill level and tough conditions. It was a perfectly thrown pass by Flacco and Brown got possession with one foot down, dragged the other foot and then both heels were on the ground while maintaining control while hitting the hard turf.

There aren't enough words to accurately describe this one, but here's one: awesome."

From Rant Sports ....

"Brown had a 92-yard performance and capped it off with the win for the team. This young buck now has five receiving TDs on the year and is really catching on with this offense. Flacco not only has a reliable weapon in him now, but now has Pitta back which makes this offense that much more deadly. Catch this offense on a day that is not filled with snow and opposing Defenses are in trouble.
Read more at http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2013/12/08/marlon-brown-key-in-baltimore-ravens-win-over-minnesota-vikings/?sCqv81dairT10K0X.99"

Took about two minutes to find those two. Took longer to post them then it did to find them.

**HoustonRaven** · 12-09-2013, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by bt12483

go find me an article that talks about flacco elevating brown.

Bigplayreceiver has shown above...not many UDFA WRs have contributed like brown has. No one is even talking about brown. Or flaccos impact on brown.

So now fans are cheery picking the verbiage of the opinion pieces they'd like to see.

Ponderous.

As I stated, Brady has over a decade of success doing it. Brown, to date, is the first for Joe. I doubt very seriously there was a "Brady elevates the play of Joe Noname" opinion piece back when Brady first started.

Yet, there needs to be one for Joe?

**bt12483** · 12-09-2013, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

The interwebs is a buzz with news articles giving praise the Flacco and / or Brown ...

From Fox Sports ... http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/p...-ending-120813

"Talk about the skill level and tough conditions. It was a perfectly thrown pass by Flacco and Brown got possession with one foot down, dragged the other foot and then both heels were on the ground while maintaining control while hitting the hard turf.

There aren't enough words to accurately describe this one, but here's one: awesome."

From Rant Sports ....

"Brown had a 92-yard performance and capped it off with the win for the team. This young buck now has five receiving TDs on the year and is really catching on with this offense. Flacco not only has a reliable weapon in him now, but now has Pitta back which makes this offense that much more deadly. Catch this offense on a day that is not filled with snow and opposing Defenses are in trouble.
Read more at http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2013/12/08/marlon-brown-key-in-baltimore-ravens-win-over-minnesota-vikings/?sCqv81dairT10K0X.99"

Took about two minutes to find those two. Took longer to post them then it did to find them.

that is talking merely about last game. Obviously the day after a game you will find a ton of those articles. Whatever. How about just don't participate in this thread if you don't like it?

**esporter113** · 12-09-2013, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

The interwebs is a buzz with news articles giving praise the Flacco and / or Brown ...

From Fox Sports ... http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/p...-ending-120813

"Talk about the skill level and tough conditions. It was a perfectly thrown pass by Flacco and Brown got possession with one foot down, dragged the other foot and then both heels were on the ground while maintaining control while hitting the hard turf.

There aren't enough words to accurately describe this one, but here's one: awesome."

From Rant Sports ....

"Brown had a 92-yard performance and capped it off with the win for the team. This young buck now has five receiving TDs on the year and is really catching on with this offense. Flacco not only has a reliable weapon in him now, but now has Pitta back which makes this offense that much more deadly. Catch this offense on a day that is not filled with snow and opposing Defenses are in trouble.
Read more at http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2013/12/08/marlon-brown-key-in-baltimore-ravens-win-over-minnesota-vikings/?sCqv81dairT10K0X.99"

Took about two minutes to find those two. Took longer to post them then it did to find them.

I think what the OP is getting at is the greater narrative. It's not that people aren't praising Joe and Marlon, it's that the conversation is "hey, this kid is good. looks like Joe has himself a new weapon." And knowing how the media usually talks about Flacco, this will be probably used against him at some point if the Ravens fall short of their goals this season. ("It's not like he doesn't have weapons --- Torrey Smith, upstart rookie Marlon Brown, etc...")

Where the conversation around Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc is how they miraculously turn average players into superstars by projecting their amazingness onto them. And then that can conveniently be used as an excuse when they don't perform ("No weapons... trying to do too much... forcing things..."). I mean, these guys have earned the right. Don't get me wrong. It's just frustrating to see how people craft an unfair story around Joe.

It's a subtle distinction but I believe it's real. There will be exceptions but I believe the general narrative regarding Flacco is that he has benefitted from great running games, great defenses, great weapons (ol' Jump Ball Joe) while other QBs are talked about in terms of elevating the talent around them, succeeding in the face of adversity.

Maybe just my opinion.

**bt12483** · 12-09-2013, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by esporter113

I think what the OP is getting at is the greater narrative. It's not that people aren't praising Joe and Marlon, it's that the conversation is "hey, this kid is good. looks like Joe has himself a new weapon." And knowing how the media usually talks about Flacco, this will be probably used against him at some point if the Ravens fall short of their goals this season. ("It's not like he doesn't have weapons --- Torrey Smith, upstart rookie Marlon Brown, etc...")

Where the conversation around Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc is how they miraculously turn average players into superstars by projecting their amazingness onto them. And then that can conveniently be used as an excuse when they don't perform ("No weapons... trying to do too much... forcing things..."). I mean, these guys have earned the right. Don't get me wrong. It's just frustrating to see how people craft an unfair story around Joe.

It's a subtle distinction but I believe it's real. There will be exceptions but I believe the general narrative regarding Flacco is that he has benefitted from great running games, great defenses, great weapons (ol' Jump Ball Joe) while other QBs are talked about in terms of elevating the talent around them, succeeding in the face of adversity.

Maybe just my opinion.

you nailed it. Thanks.

**HoustonRaven** · 12-09-2013, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by esporter113

I think what the OP is getting at is the greater narrative. It's not that people aren't praising Joe and Marlon, it's that the conversation is "hey, this kid is good. looks like Joe has himself a new weapon." And knowing how the media usually talks about Flacco, this will be probably used against him at some point if the Ravens fall short of their goals this season. ("It's not like he doesn't have weapons --- Torrey Smith, upstart rookie Marlon Brown, etc...")

Where the conversation around Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc is how they miraculously turn average players into superstars by projecting their amazingness onto them. And then that can conveniently be used as an excuse when they don't perform ("No weapons... trying to do too much... forcing things..."). I mean, these guys have earned the right. Don't get me wrong. It's just frustrating to see how people craft an unfair story around Joe.

It's a subtle distinction but I believe it's real. There will be exceptions but I believe the general narrative regarding Flacco is that he has benefitted from great running games, great defenses, great weapons (ol' Jump Ball Joe) while other QBs are talked about in terms of elevating the talent around them, succeeding in the face of adversity.

Maybe just my opinion.

You're comparing Joe's coverage with that of three of the best QB's to ever play the game. Joe isn't Brady, Bree's or Rodgers. By definition, he isn't going to get the stories similar to Brady, Brees or Rodgers.

That's not a knock on Joe. That's just the era in which he's playing.

And show me an article that's unfair to Joe and I'll find more that are just the opposite.

**Beau Petard** · 12-09-2013, 04:14 PM

esport-
I think you make a decent case around the perceptions that occur in the media, and I agree.

OTOH, to me, the media opinions and coverage often border on the "power rankings" idea that these things are "important". To us fans, and I confess I get a little bitchy at times, it's "disrespect" towards Flacco, and "ballwashing" of Brady. Yet Brady (and the Brady-led Pats) is arguably one of the most successful QBs in the NFL - other than his 2002 rookie season, nothing anywhere near a .500 or losing season, and somepretty impressive personal stats. I also confess I think he loaded up here and there due to the kindliness of the officials, but his overall success can't be attributed to that, IMO.

Given all that, it doesn't surprise me that QBs like Brady get the Randolph Scott treatment, but gimme Flacco, the Ravens in the playoffs every year, and throw in a Super Bowl win for us now and again, and I can struggle past my personal pain and disappointments of the media neglect of Joe! ;)

**TTRaven** · 12-09-2013, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

You're comparing Joe's coverage with that of three of the best QB's to ever play the game. Joe isn't Brady, Bree's or Rodgers. By definition, he isn't going to get the stories similar to Brady, Brees or Rodgers.

That's not a knock on Joe. That's just the era in which he's playing.

And show me an article that's unfair to Joe and I'll find more that are just the opposite.

Right. You're talking about future HOF players. Obviously they're going to get more coverage.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk 2

**esporter113** · 12-09-2013, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

You're comparing Joe's coverage with that of three of the best QB's to ever play the game. Joe isn't Brady, Bree's or Rodgers. By definition, he isn't going to get the stories similar to Brady, Brees or Rodgers.

That's not a knock on Joe. That's just the era in which he's playing.

And show me an article that's unfair to Joe and I'll find more that are just the opposite.

It's not all about articles. It's the talking heads. I mean I'm sure you watch ESPN, NFL Network, listen to Podcasts. Other guys facing the same challenges as Joe tend to get a pass more often. I swear to God they do. Listen to the ESPN Football Today Podcast and you'll hear about how guys like Matt Ryan and Eli Manning need better protection and they're trying to do too much and they have no running game and no weapons. And Joe Flacco? Well he just needs to play better and put the team on his back.

I'm not arguing with you that Joe isn't Brees, Brady, Manning or Rodgers. But you can't compare him to Tom Brady in his first year either in terms of how the media should talk about him. Joe is one of the premiere QBs in the league. No one has accomplished more over the past 6 years. And it's not like he's been chucking up prayers to Calvin Johnson. He won playoff games throwing to guys like TJ Housh and Mark Clayton and Ed Dickson for crying out loud.

I'm not going to pull every mention of Joe Flacco and do a sentiment analysis on how he's perceived. We can just agree to disagree on the national perception of him. I tend to think he's generally undercredited with the success of this franchise but that's just me.