On John Harbaugh

**SeeBass** · 11-12-2013, 10:20 AM

I read this quote today and was dumbfounded.

"John Harbaugh has been incredibly successful during his 5+ years as the Ravens head coach. Even his harshest critics would have to admit that overall Harbaugh has done ok."

"Ok", I would say even his harshest critics would have to say he is one of the better coaches currently in the league( his record suggest he is one of the best in the recent history of the league). Before this season 57-30 overall with a 9-4 playoff record and 1 Super Bowl title. One of the best starts for a coach in NFL history.

People take issue with Harbaugh on a lot of fronts but one place he can't be attacked (and they never try) is his record. People can criticize Harbaugh it doesn't matter to me but obviously there is a segment of the population who will never be happy.

Could they fire Harbaugh at the end of the season and hire a better coach? Sure they could but it is far more likely that they would get a much worse one.

**RavenScallywag** · 11-12-2013, 10:30 AM

Like Joe Flacco, John Harbaugh continues to get less credit than he deserves. John Harbaugh's past 5 years are explained away by his critics with one name: Ray Lewis. Everyone says "Well, this was Ray Lewis' team, and Ray Lewis kept that locker room together. John Harbaugh just went along for the ride and had some luck with getting good players"

That theory is getting tested further this year, as in his first year without Ray Lewis, we are in our roughest patch.

I know this is the pot calling the kettle black, but we need to just tune out what the national media or fans say about Harbaugh or this team. They generalize without knowing the real details. I think any Ravens fan can look at how this team has operated over the last 5+ years and see how much Harbaugh has done for it. From the work ethic changes, to the healed locker room. The man has his faults, sure. And at times, we SCREAM about a clock management goof here or a dumb challenge there. But you can see that he has his team in line and has really done a good job here, despite what the outsiders want to claim.

**Ravens2006** · 11-12-2013, 10:37 AM

People questioning his decisions in games doesn't bother me all that much. I agree with some of what he does, I disagree with some. But I'll never, ever understand this obsession from some to analyze every word that comes out of his mouth in front of the microphone... as if any of it matters.

He's not going to criticize specific players. He's not going to criticize specific coaches. That's just not how he believes a head coach should carry himself in front of the media. What goes on inside the training facility is a different matter... and we're not privy to the self-evaluation that goes on there. But this strange, almost irrational desire from some to hear him go in front of the microphone and slam his employees and his colleagues... it doesn't make any sense. It would serve no good purpose.

**crazyraven** · 11-12-2013, 10:47 AM

Truth is Billick has a ring because of Ray, too, and Billick hasnt coached since he was booted. his record as a HC is pretty good. Win another one without Ray and John Harbaugh should be considered Better than OK. And hopefully Joe will get cut some slack as well.

**ravenwoman** · 11-12-2013, 10:53 AM

I have always felt that a coach's success is defined by the ability of his QB. Every famous coach in the modern era has had a great QB and John Harbaugh will be defined by whatever success Joe Flacco has had or will have going forward. I am not dismissing the other players on the team, but the QB is the most important and you can't win without a good one.

**esporter113** · 11-12-2013, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by RavenScallywag

Like Joe Flacco, John Harbaugh continues to get less credit than he deserves.

Totally agree and it drives me crazy. People were saying Jim was a better coach than him after the 9ers went to the NFC title game two years ago... in Jim's first year in the league. Now I think it's pretty universally accepted that Jim is the better coach, which I think is total bull.

Let's see how he handles adversity. Let's see if he can get his team to keep fighting in a down year when they don't have one of the 3 most talented rosters in the league. Guys like Harbs who aren't really scheme guys always get overlooked for the offensive and defensive gurus. I disagree with some of the things John has done, especially this year, but he's still one of the best coaches in the league until further notice. He has the track record to prove it and he's done it with significantly less talent than people realize.

**JoeCool5** · 11-12-2013, 11:50 AM

[QUOTE=SeeBass;698242]I read this quote today and was dumbfounded.

"John Harbaugh has been incredibly successful during his 5+ years as the Ravens head coach. Even his harshest critics would have to admit that overall Harbaugh has done ok."

TL wrote that. And he has been one of Harbs' "harshest critics." My opinion is he is pretty underrated amongst the coaching elite.
There are analysts who still call him "Jim," which drives me nuts. JOHN is far from perfect, but he's helped make us a perennially competitive team.

**pslholder96** · 11-12-2013, 11:56 AM

Ultimately a coach is recognized by his record (wins, losses, championships)

How he got there is another thing that can be debated over and over again. Context his everything when it comes to evaluating a player or coach but at the end of the day the numbers don't lie and it's something than can never be deleted from the history books.

**SeeBass** · 11-12-2013, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by RavenScallywag

Like Joe Flacco, John Harbaugh continues to get less credit than he deserves. John Harbaugh's past 5 years are explained away by his critics with one name: Ray Lewis. Everyone says "Well, this was Ray Lewis' team, and Ray Lewis kept that locker room together. John Harbaugh just went along for the ride and had some luck with getting good players"

except Billick did rather poorly with that same set of players the year before Harbaugh showed up. Losing Ray Lewis is not the reason this team has struggled. The main reason is that is hard to replace half of you starters from one season to the next.

**Ravens2006** · 11-12-2013, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by SeeBass

except Billick did rather poorly with that same set of players the year before Harbaugh showed up. Losing Ray Lewis is not the reason this team has struggled. The main reason is that is hard to replace half of you starters from one season to the next.

Billick's '07 Ravens team was decimated by key injuries (Heap, McCalister, Rolle, Pryce, McNair). The same group, with a healthier McNair, went 13-3 the year before. Their secondary talent beyond the starters was ATROCIOUS, incapable of covering anyone on the outside, and without a pass rush got destroyed frequently by any opposing QB who didn't trip over his own feet. Boller was Boller in relief, and McNair couldn't throw the ball more than 20 yards. Anyway, I think it's worth noting the two squads were not completely equal either.

**Ravens2006** · 11-12-2013, 01:11 PM

I always want to know... for those who think the team wins in spite of Harbaugh... what head coaches in the league do you consider "good"? If you could pick any 5 tomorrow to take over, who and why?

**HotInHere** · 11-12-2013, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by ravenwoman

I have always felt that a coach's success is defined by the ability of his QB. Every famous coach in the modern era has had a great QB and John Harbaugh will be defined by whatever success Joe Flacco has had or will have going forward. I am not dismissing the other players on the team, but the QB is the most important and you can't win without a good one.

Joe Gibbs would beg to differ, but I get your overall point.