All Things Draft:

**bmorecareful** · 03-10-2013, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I am still not 100% sold on Austin going before the Ravens pick. I think Patterson, Hunter, Allen, and Hopkins are all more likely to go before Tavon. Having nothing to do with his ability, his size just really limits what you can do with him on the field.

Do you guys remember Jacoby Ford? He came out of Clemson a few years ago to the Raiders. He was an absolute monster in college and was a threat to score every time the ball was in his hands. Many felt he was one of the better receivers in that draft and he is just as fast and explosive as Tavon. He is also about 5-10 lbs heavier and roughly the same height. I think Ford dropped into the 3rd round and though he has made some big time plays for the Raiders he is still a niche player and has had a hard time breaking into their game plans. DHB is nowhere near as good of a player as Ford is, but he was a 1st rounder and is a starter.

Unfortunately, at receiver size does matter. I know some will look at Steve Smith as a comparison and it is valid, but Smith was also not taken in round 1 and Austin (by many's own words on here including mine) played a lot of slot at WVU and isn't great at fighting off press coverage.

I am all about the Ravens getting more explosive at receiver, but we also need someone who can line up outside as opposed to another slot guy. For my money, DeAndre Hopkins is a better fit for this offense right now. However, I think the Ravens will have an opportunity to take Tavon if they want to. I just don't 100% believe that a GM is going to spend a 1st rounder on the 5'9" niche receiver.

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This is a very good post, but the NFL is constantly changing. In 2009 Percy Harvin (5'10 185) was the 22nd overall pick and people thought that might have been a reach. If you re-drafted 2009 he'd be in the conversation for the #1 overall pick IMO. Darren Sproles has led the league in total yards each of the last 2 years IIRC. Randall Cobb is one of the most explosive young WRs in the league and some feel he will be Green Bay's #1 next year.

Tavon Austin might be 5'9, and he might not be a complete receiver like AJ Green or Julio Jones, but he is a straight up baller that can do things no one else in the league can do. If he goes to a bad team that asks him to line up outside and run routes like any other receiver, then he is probably not going to have a good NFL career. But that won't be his fault, that will be the team's fault.

Darren Sproles was a decent player for the Chargers for a while, but they asked him to run the ball between the tackles as a change of pace and return kicks and punts. They thought they could just jam him onto their offensive gameplan and watch him succeed. He was okay, but when he went to New Orleans they started designing the offense around what he could do and now he's taken off.

If the Ravens drafted Austin they would need to commit to building the offense around getting him the ball in space. Simple as that. I feel like Caldwell is creative enough to do that.

**wickedsolo** · 03-10-2013, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

This is a very good post, but the NFL is constantly changing. In 2009 Percy Harvin (5'10 185) was the 22nd overall pick and people thought that might have been a reach. If you re-drafted 2009 he'd be in the conversation for the #1 overall pick IMO. Darren Sproles has led the league in total yards each of the last 2 years IIRC. Randall Cobb is one of the most explosive young WRs in the league and some feel he will be Green Bay's #1 next year.

Yet, the Vikings have felt like they needed a #1 receiver even though they took Harvin, who is very good. I just see a guy who is a niche receiver. He is more of a slot/scat receiver, which works well in some offenses, but like you pointed out below the coaching staff has to commit to getting that player involved and not just trying to square peg/round-hole it. Furthermore, both Harvin and Cobb are nearly 2 inches taller than Austin and heavier. Cobb was also a 2nd round pick even though he was highly thought of in that particular draft.

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Tavon Austin might be 5'9, and he might not be a complete receiver like AJ Green or Julio Jones, but he is a straight up baller that can do things no one else in the league can do. If he goes to a bad team that asks him to line up outside and run routes like any other receiver, then he is probably not going to have a good NFL career. But that won't be his fault, that will be the team's fault.

Darren Sproles was a decent player for the Chargers for a while, but they asked him to run the ball between the tackles as a change of pace and return kicks and punts. They thought they could just jam him onto their offensive gameplan and watch him succeed. He was okay, but when he went to New Orleans they started designing the offense around what he could do and now he's taken off.

If the Ravens drafted Austin they would need to commit to building the offense around getting him the ball in space. Simple as that. I feel like Caldwell is creative enough to do that.

Austin is barely 5'9". While we're talking about maybe a 1/2 of an inch here, that does make a difference in some scout's eyes. And I agree with you wholeheartedly here. I just think Austin is a specific type of receiver that needs to be implemented into a specific type of game plan. I'm just not sure that a team needing a starting receiver (like Chicago, St. Louis, Tennessee, possibly Baltimore, San Francisco, etc) are going to look at Austin before guys like Hunter, Hopkins, and Allen (even though I think Allen is horribly overrated...I don't even have him in my top 10 receivers). The simple reason is size. Hunter is almost 30lbs heavier than Austin and almost a foot taller. Hunter isn't the fluid/explosive receiver that Austin is, but for a team needing a potential #1/#2 receiver, I think that Hunter is a lot more appealing than Austin. Especially considering that there are other smaller/scat receivers in this draft that can be had later on (Marquis Goodwin, for example). No, they're not the player that Austin is, but you get my point. When thinking about value vs need, it may come down to that type of a scenario for a lot of teams.

And you are right, the NFL is changing...however some things don't always change and unfortunately (for some players), having bigger receivers with speed is almost always going to win out over a smaller, but more polished player.

Even with the success of a Sproles or Steve Smith or a Randall Cobb, guys like DeSean Jackson, Jacoby Ford, TY Hilton, Travis Benjamin, TJ Graham, Ryan Broyles, etc are still going to be favored less in the draft (and even in offensive game plans) vs their bigger colleagues.

I mean, just look at last year's draft. Brian Quick (from the juggernaut school Appalachian State) went before Broyles, who is one of the most prolific collegiate receivers ever. Brian Quick (who was scouted as being very very very RAW) went before TY Hilton, Travis Benjamin, and TJ Graham who were all considered to be polished receivers with a lot of explosiveness and speed.

I just think that the WR position is one where coaches and GMs will never really change all that much because they are always going to be looking for that next Randy Moss and Megatron. They're not really looking for that next Steve Smith or Wes Welker, you know?

**redramsam** · 03-11-2013, 12:23 AM

Damontre Moore didn't do so well at his Pro Day on the 8th. He bumped up his bench reps to 19, but he was unable to improve on his sluggish 40 (he didn't run) because of a tweaked hamstring and was apparently average in drills. Would be ridiculously awesome if he fell to us.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...ay-report.html

**wickedsolo** · 03-11-2013, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by redramsam

Damontre Moore didn't do so well at his Pro Day on the 8th. He bumped up his bench reps to 19, but he was unable to improve on his sluggish 40 (he didn't run) because of a tweaked hamstring and was apparently average in drills. Would be ridiculously awesome if he fell to us.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...ay-report.html

And with guys like Okafor and Carradine gaining some traction, I think he could slip a little.

I dont think he slips all the way to 32 though. Pretty sure he will still be a top 20 pick.

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**leachisabeast** · 03-11-2013, 05:40 AM

I've seen a lot of big boards taking him out of the top 30 lately, there is a chance.

Also if you watch the Alabama game, he REALLY struggled getting anything going especially in the run game.

**Lee Van Cleef** · 03-11-2013, 02:28 PM

Apparently Sam Montgomery has been dropped by his agent.

This guy is gonna plummet down the draft at this rate.

**bmorecareful** · 03-11-2013, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Lee Van Cleef

Apparently Sam Montgomery has been dropped by his agent.

This guy is gonna plummet down the draft at this rate.

He's firmly in the 3rd round right now, I would say, and I would not be all that surprised for him to go undrafted. He totally bombed the interviews, had a pretty modest Combine, and his tape is not impressive at all. The agent dropping him is an indication that things are getting worse, not better, as teams go further into their evaluation process.

**arnie_uk** · 03-11-2013, 02:48 PM

Kids got talent of he can pull it all together, that's a big if. His fall could be similar to Burfict. But mid rounds, 3, 4 you have to ask the risk vs reward question. I think he'd be a good pick that late

**leachisabeast** · 03-11-2013, 06:27 PM

I'd be happy to draft Montgomery...... if he could actually get off the line before next Christmas arrives.

**leachisabeast** · 03-11-2013, 07:40 PM

Kenny Vaccoro is fasssst

**GreatWhiteNorthRaven** · 03-12-2013, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Kenny Vaccoro is fasssst

He is my #1 target in the 1st round. If he drops into the 20's I want to move up for him. Hopefully they sign a LT instead of drafting one early and trade up to get Vaccaro

Huge man-crush on Vaccaro

**leachisabeast** · 03-12-2013, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by runrayrun27

He is my #1 target in the 1st round. If he drops into the 20's I want to move up for him. Hopefully they sign a LT instead of drafting one early and trade up to get Vaccaro

Huge man-crush on Vaccaro

I'm on the same train man, this guy is so good, he's better than Mark Barron was last year, which leads me to believe that he's going higher than we'd hope. With that said if he drops into the 20's I'd love to trade up for him, we have 12 picks in this draft to put to good use afterall.