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Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread
I'm with jonboy on this one, saving 1.3 (the price to franchise tag someone as a ROFR) to use a rookie with promise, who can actually block would put us in better position, but that's just my opinion anyway. Dickson cannot catch shit either, he's ACTUALLY regressed from his rookie/sophomore years. Remember he started out his sophomore year with a bang? He looked like a pro bowl TE for christ sakes, I think somethings happened to that kid.
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01-31-2013, 01:50 PM #1826
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01-31-2013, 01:51 PM #1827Legendary RSR Poster
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01-31-2013, 01:58 PM #1828Hall Of Fame Poster
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Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread
I get the point here, but it's going to be a decision of marginal value. We all seem to agree that the Ravens will very likely draft a TE this year due to the uncertainty of having no TEs on the roster under contract next year, although 2 are RFAs. So I would argue that Dickson's marginal cost shouldn't be compared to the veteran minimum but rather a mid-round pick--which is likely to be closer to 500k than 900k. Dickson's original-round tender will be 1.323m, by the way. So you're realistically talking about a 700-800k cap savings by replacing Dickson with a 3rd-5th round rookie.
That sounds like an insignificant difference but every little bit counts. Moreover, Dickson has trade value--as you say, he does have upside and is young. The problem is the scheme fit for the Ravens as opposed to other teams. His role within our system is exactly the same as Pitta's: basically a slot wide receiver who is much less comfortable playing in-line and has marginal to no blocking ability. There is NO reason to put Dickson on the field right now other than to show the defense an unconventional look--this is the reason why Dickson has played so few snaps this season, combined with his injury. The Ravens have been MUCH more a 3-wide team in passing downs than a 2TE team this year.
Obviously that was different last year when Dickson put up what on first glance appeared to be a very good year: 54 catches for 528 yards and 5 TDs. That sounds great, but place that within the context of what we had on offense last year... essentially no 3rd WR whatsoever and a receiving corps that struggled terribly to separate for various reasons. This year with a viable 3rd WR and a more imaginative and explosive passing game Dickson has been relegated to where he belongs at this point: the bench.
The bottom line is that Dickson's value is significantly lower for the Ravens than it may be for other teams. Teams that want a WR-in-TE-body type of player would do well to get Dickson, and he could certainly start for some teams that use their TE like that on an every-down basis (Chip Kelly's Eagles, perhaps.) I just don't think he's anything more than an injury fill-in here for the Ravens and they'd do well to unload him in a trade.
I will readily admit though that you can't dismiss what Dickson offers as an injury back-up. If the team feels having insurance for a Pitta injury is worth that much I wouldn't disagree with it, although I think the marginal value of potentially moving him for a draft pick and saving some money is higher.
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Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread
What if you trade Dickson (save 1.3 Million and package one of our picks to say the Eagles to move up some draft slots to gain a better player in say the third or 4th round, we trade our 3rd for thier 3rd or our 4th for thier 4th.)? Then draft a REAL TE in Ertz or Eiffert (blocking and receiving TE's who are first round worthy? Then Dickson is expendable, and you have a TRUE all around TE for 4 years at low cost. Both those TE's are great value and provide an element we lack in the offense in both the passing game and run game. Plus saving Dickson's tender can basically allow you to sign your first round pick essentially for free the first year.
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Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread
I would just love to see the Ravens shift to a 4-3 front anyway.
Sometimes you have to go with what you're dealt and unfortunately (but not really unfortunately), the better linebackers and pass rushers coming out of college right now are better fits for 4-3 fronts instead of 3-4 schemes.
That's not to say that there aren't guys who don't or won't fit into a 3-4, but when you look at this draft, the best linebackers are guys like Khaseem Greene, Kevin Minter, Alec Ogletree, etc. Granted, those guys probably could be decent fits in the 3-4, but - just purely based on skillsets - are likely better suited for 4-3 fronts.Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.
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Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread
I don't see him being an adequate replacement for Lewis. He is a good tackler, but in K-State's bowl game Oregon just completely shut him down. Brown couldn't get off of blockers well, he tried to run around blockers, he was late to the ball a lot.
He has value, but I wouldn't take him before the 4th round.
There are better linebackers.Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.
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Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread
Ozzie knows TE's, since he has been here, we have had Sharpe, Heap and Pitta. I trust Ozzie in evaluating TE's, being one. We need a "true" TE running/blocking/receiving. Taking Ertz or Effiert would be a coup, I would trade up to get them if necessary. The teams ahead of us in the drafting order who made the playoffs already have a TE, except for Atlanta who will likely pick one of TG doesnt retire. The New NFL is TE freindly with rule changes.
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Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread
I think the positives of going to a 4-3 for us also negate our need for a NT, because Ngata would move into a 4-3 NT, while either McPhee or Art Jones/draft pick would slot in next to him on that 4 man front, then you could put Upshaw in as a LDE, and Suggs would assume the LDE role which is both their natural fits IMO anyway.
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Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread
Why not both though? You know?
Say we draft Williams and let Dickson walk. Pitta gets hurt. Then what?
Williams is a solid TE...but probably not starter worth (he may get to that point eventually) and definitely not able to replicate what Pitta can do.
If - and it is a BIG if - they do not tender Dickson, then they would almost be forcing their hand to spend a high draft pick on someone like Eiffert, Ertz, or Escobar. Now, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, but it would kind of suck to have to pass on someone like Kevin Minter or Datone Jones because the Ravens have jack squat depth at TE.Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.
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01-31-2013, 02:24 PM #1836Hall Of Fame Poster
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Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread
I've been beating this drum all year. We actually already have so much of the personnel to make it happen. Haloti Ngata would be perfect as a 4-3 nose tackle, we already know Suggs can play right DE very well, and Upshaw has actually played more with his hand in the dirt than at LB this year.
As bad as our DL has been at times this year, with everybody healthy we have way more talent on the line than at 'backer. Ngata, Art Jones, McPhee, Suggs, Upshaw, DeAngelo Tyson... McAdoo and Hamilton were both DEs in college... that's the makings of a potentially really solid rotation on the DL in the 4-3.
Another guy who fits really well is McClellan at 4-3 SAM. Somebody earlier said that McClellan hasn't been used enough this year and I agree. He was VERY good setting the edge and defending the short curl/flat zone earlier in the year. Ellerbe could be a great 4-3 MIKE if he's retained, and if he's not McClain and Bynes would battle it out for the spot. The big hole is 4-3 WILL... but there are so many guys in this draft who could step in on day 1 and have a Lavonte David type impact the WILL position.
Khaseem Greene, Arthur Brown, Gerald Hodges, Sean Porter, Jelani Jenkins... all of them have a lot of upside at 4-3 WILL and would add a TON of speed to our defense.
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