Steve Bisciotti Needs to Speak

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10-09-2017, 08:38 PM
ravenmaniac4life

Re: Steve Bisciotti Needs to Speak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ortizer

Not where they shout it. =)

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This is semantics.

Fans yelling "Oh" isn't the same as players kneeling in protest. It's an absurd comparison.

I don't even get the point of making this case. I guess it means that if Orioles fans yell "Oh"...its just as disrespectful as NFL players kneeling in protest? Is that it? If so...that's hilarious/ridiculous.
10-09-2017, 10:02 PM
Ortizer

Re: Steve Bisciotti Needs to Speak

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravenmaniac4life

This is semantics.

Fans yelling "Oh" isn't the same as players kneeling in protest. It's an absurd comparison.

I don't even get the point of making this case. I guess it means that if Orioles fans yell "Oh"...its just as disrespectful as NFL players kneeling in protest? Is that it? If so...that's hilarious/ridiculous.

Literally detracting from something is less disrespectful than peacefully kneeling. Right.

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10-09-2017, 10:58 PM
ravenmaniac4life

Re: Steve Bisciotti Needs to Speak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ortizer

Literally detracting from something is less disrespectful than peacefully kneeling. Right.

Yelling "Oh" is detracting? What about clapping before the song is officially over? Is that detracting?

Well, I will say this about the anthem protests. So much positive change has happened as a result. Great work everyone! They certainly are making a difference.
10-09-2017, 11:07 PM
wickedsolo

Re: Steve Bisciotti Needs to Speak

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravenmaniac4life

"I am not going to stand up and show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," - CK

I wonder if he includes Asians?

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10-10-2017, 06:36 AM
Ortizer

Re: Steve Bisciotti Needs to Speak

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravenmaniac4life

Yelling "Oh" is detracting? What about clapping before the song is officially over? Is that detracting?

Well, I will say this about the anthem protests. So much positive change has happened as a result. Great work everyone! They certainly are making a difference.

Actually, as a musician I fully agree the second example is detracting from the music... And a giant distraction to whoever is performing.

What I will say is that nothing I say will convince you they aren't protesting the flag because this is an emotional issue for you, and that's how you interpret their actions. It's probably similar to the disconnect earlier in the thread where people were saying that they literally fear for their life when encountering the police and people were trying to counter with statistics.

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10-10-2017, 09:32 AM
I Touchdown There

Re: Steve Bisciotti Needs to Speak

so, where's the outrage on disrespecting the flag here? flag on his junk seems a bit more egregious than kneeling... but that's just my opinion[emoji477]

https://twitter.com/astros/status/917504561912442880

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10-10-2017, 09:52 AM
ravenmaniac4life

Re: Steve Bisciotti Needs to Speak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ortizer

Actually, as a musician I fully agree the second example is detracting from the music... And a giant distraction to whoever is performing.

What I will say is that nothing I say will convince you they aren't protesting the flag because this is an emotional issue for you, and that's how you interpret their actions. It's probably similar to the disconnect earlier in the thread where people were saying that they literally fear for their life when encountering the police and people were trying to counter with statistics.

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If they aren't protesting the flag or anthem, then why take a knee/sit during the anthem? If they aren't protesting the flag/anthem, then why did the original "kneeler" specifically say that he was protesting the flag? Round and round we go. This isn't emotion. This is called logic.

Regarding people fearing for their life when encountering police...don't resist/flee the scene/attack the police/point a gun at the police/reach for a gun/ fight them/etc and there is nothing to fear. Logic. See, wasn't that easy?

Statistics are necessary in this debate because it's the truth. Are some cops assholes? Absolutely! Are some doctors assholes? Absolutely! Are some car mechanics assholes? Absolutely! Let's not paint an entire entity with a broad brush because it caters to a certain narrative. If I want to protest the medical industry because I don't like it...kneeling during the national anthem while I'm at work won't do a damn thing to change the medical industry. Real change doesn't occur that way. Real change occurs when facts are presented and changes are made as a result of those facts. Logic again.
10-10-2017, 11:00 AM
Ortizer

Re: Steve Bisciotti Needs to Speak

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravenmaniac4life

If they aren't protesting the flag or anthem, then why take a knee/sit during the anthem? If they aren't protesting the flag/anthem, then why did the original "kneeler" specifically say that he was protesting the flag? Round and round we go. This isn't emotion. This is called logic.

Regarding people fearing for their life when encountering police...don't resist/flee the scene/attack the police/point a gun at the police/reach for a gun/ fight them/etc and there is nothing to fear. Logic. See, wasn't that easy?

Statistics are necessary in this debate because it's the truth. Are some cops assholes? Absolutely! Are some doctors assholes? Absolutely! Are some car mechanics assholes? Absolutely! Let's not paint an entire entity with a broad brush because it caters to a certain narrative. If I want to protest the medical industry because I don't like it...kneeling during the national anthem while I'm at work won't do a damn thing to change the medical industry. Real change doesn't occur that way. Real change occurs when facts are presented and changes are made as a result of those facts. Logic again.

You say let's not paint an entire entity with a broad brush... Wait for it... Right after you painted all the protesters with a single brush. Yes, the original protester said he was protesting the country. The other ones have not.

You need an audience to present facts though. I can decide I want to change the school lunch program. I can come up with the most beautiful charts backed up by the most accurate statistics, and stand outside my office on the street presenting them. What are the odds of enough people listening to create change?

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10-10-2017, 11:06 AM
NCRAVEN

Re: Steve Bisciotti Needs to Speak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ortizer

You say let's not paint an entire entity with a broad brush... Wait for it... Right after you painted all the protesters with a single brush. Yes, the original protester said he was protesting the country. The other ones have not.

You need an audience to present facts though. I can decide I want to change the school lunch program. I can come up with the most beautiful charts backed up by the most accurate statistics, and stand outside my office on the street presenting them. What are the odds of enough people listening to create change?

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before you need enough people to listen, you first have a problem that is affecting a lot of people. Based on statistics. there isn't. Why I think the extreme cases that make national headlines are what's used.
10-10-2017, 11:48 AM
ravenmaniac4life

Re: Steve Bisciotti Needs to Speak

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

before you need enough people to listen, you first have a problem that is affecting a lot of people. Based on statistics. there isn't. Why I think the extreme cases that make national headlines are what's used.

:iagree:
10-10-2017, 11:53 AM
ravenmaniac4life

Re: Steve Bisciotti Needs to Speak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ortizer

You say let's not paint an entire entity with a broad brush... Wait for it... Right after you painted all the protesters with a single brush. Yes, the original protester said he was protesting the country. The other ones have not.

If they aren't protesting the flag/anthem, then why are they kneeling during the flag/anthem? They are duplicating the same protest of a guy who was openly protesting the flag. None of this makes sense. It's pretty easy to deduce that they are protesting the flag...because 1) they are protesting during the national anthem, and 2) the guy who started this was indeed protesting the flag.
10-10-2017, 12:17 PM
Ortizer

Re: Steve Bisciotti Needs to Speak

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

before you need enough people to listen, you first have a problem that is affecting a lot of people. Based on statistics. there isn't. Why I think the extreme cases that make national headlines are what's used.

That's a fair point. If you don't have a strong case, no matter how many people listen, they'll lose interest fast.

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