Who will be the Ravens' starting LT week one?

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Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I'm not a huge McKinnie fan, but only because I think he's a lazy piece who couldn't care less about winning.

That said, I do think he is a better LT than Oher and I am all for any scenario that keeps Oher at RT and keeps Osemele at LG. Osemele was really solid as a RT last year, which leads me to believe that he may be able to handle the LT position. However, when he moved to LG he was lights out. I think KO could be Carl Nicks good at LG.

Who knows? Maybe Ricky Wagner shocks the world and goes from afterthought OT prospect to starting LT?

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I agree with all of this but I'm trying to get used to the idea that KO may end being the best option. He's untested there and I'm concerned that a very good LG becomes a horrible LT. I'm hopeful we can still get someone else and keep KO at guard and Oher away from LT. Wagner is definitely a longshot but that would be a welcomed surprise.

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Originally Posted by TDL1000

I agree completely.KO was beaten by edge rushers numerous times at RT last season and it's baffling why anyone would think that he would fare any better at LT.He appears to have the potential to become a dominant OG and they should just leave him alone there and see how he develops.Just as they should have left Oher at RT all along.If anything the constant movement with Oher has caused him to regress from the player that we saw in his rookie season and hopefully they avoid making the same mistake with KO.Since the jury is still out on Gino they basically have 3 solid linemen and just shuffling them around isn't going to create a fourth.Filling one hole by digging one right next to it isn't really solving their problem. It's just shifting it to another spot along the line.

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A heavy, rookie, former OG should have struggled at either tackle spot. Makes perfect sense. So maybe a lighter, and a bit more experienced former RT (who handled pass pro pretty well all year save for 3 games) can perform rather well at LT.

And as I imply in my previous post, I don't buy the conventional wisdom around Oher and how the constant re-positioning has affected his performance. He just isn't a good tackle...and certainly, unless something within him changes this OS and performs like frikkin 1st rounder again, he certainly isn't worth the $4-$6M/yr that he will most likely be offered.

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Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

A heavy, rookie, former OG should have struggled at either tackle spot. Makes perfect sense. So maybe a lighter, and a bit more experienced former RT (who handled pass pro pretty well all year save for 3 games) can perform rather well at LT.

And as I imply in my previous post, I don't buy the conventional wisdom around Oher and how the constant re-positioning has affected his performance. He just isn't a good tackle...and certainly, unless something within him changes this OS and performs like frikkin 1st rounder again, he certainly isn't worth the $4-$6M/yr that he will most likely be offered.

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1) KO has played LT before. He started at LT at Iowa State. So, it isn't like he has zero experience at tackle (not that you are implying that).

2) I have often wondered if Oher would have been better as a guard.

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Originally Posted by GOTA

Left Tackles get paid on average almost triple what a Guard does and double what a RT does. Any player who has a chance to play LT is going to take it.

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not true. Top end guards are in the $7-8m range... top end LT's nearer $10m and top end RT's nearer $5-6m except for Anthony Davis who got like $7m, but that is an outlier.

I answered someone else. I'm holding out hope one of the teams that just drafted an early tackle(or acuired a top FA) will move on from their previous option.
To me, that is Saffold, Monroe or Peters.
That would be an Ozzie type move.

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Originally Posted by jonboy79

not true. Top end guards are in the $7-8m range... top end LT's nearer $10m and top end RT's nearer $5-6m except for Anthony Davis who got like $7m, but that is an outlier.

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That's why I put on average. There was a PFF article on it that someone had a link for. Search through the threads and you'll find it.

Roger Saffold.

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Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

WRT to pass blocking, KO didn't perform all that bad in 2012.
http://russellstreetreport.com/forum...208#post625208

However, folks have this idea that KO (once shifted to LG) became a demon in the playoffs. Nope. WRT run blocking according to PFF.com, two of his worst three games came in the playoffs. Ironically, his best run blocking game was the SB. He was a demon that game, no doubt.

About Oher...his worse deficiency is also his run blocking. It was atrocious in 2012...way worst than his pass blocking. According to PFF.com 3 of his worst 4 run blocking games were in the playoffs. LT, RT, regular season, playoffs...Oher is a productivity hindrance where ever he lines up. His outstanding rookie year, for whatever reason, was a statistical anomaly. Plain and simple.

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I am not sure it makes any sense to just ignore the three worst games a player had then compare him to other players without removing their three worst games. Obviously KO was a rookie, but so was 2009 Oher who is being used in the comparison. The point being, why is KO expected to improve from average-at-best at RT when he starts playing LT? Oher didn't and he played decently at RT in 2009.

As for switching around affecting Oher, I am not sure it can be dismissed. Everything about the move is different. Different steps, punch, etc. Opposite leg, hand, etc for every drop. Reps and continuity has to help, imo. Switching back and forth cannot help; whether it hurts a lot or very little is debatable.

And as for PFF, last I looked Oher graded better at run blocking for 2012 than pass blocking, but maybe things are different with subscribers' info (I only look at free stuff).

The bottomline is, I think everyone agrees we would like a better LT than Oher, but too often people exaggerate his struggles and ignore the struggles of the supposed replacements (or even other team's tackles). McKinnie had a worse year in 2011 than Oher did according to PFF, yet you wouldn't know it when people discuss McKinnie. McKinnie also didn't light the world on fire in the playoffs last year, allowing several sacks in the handful of games.

I also think, as last year's playoffs showed, that offensive schemes and playcalling can vastly improve the O-line performance even with similar O-line effort/talent. Our O-linemen suffered from Cameron's offense (the same as our WRs and QB did), and looking at Time-to-Sack stats shows this (ours were very bad/long). When statisticians grade O-linemen primarily on pressures/sacks, and when a team's offense cannot figure out who to throw to as fast as other team's offenses, then that team's O-linemen will rack up more pressure/sack instances than their peers because they are asked to block longer.

We dont really have any great options at LT, imo, if we are talking about players on the 2012 Ravens roster. But hopefully KO will prove me wrong when he gets his chance, or we will pick up someone new (we need to anyway for at least one position, imo).

I think I'm more concerned with LG if KO gets moved than I am KO playing LT, although, again, I have concerns about that. Who realistically is their LG? Jah Reid? I mean he was better than Williams and Harewood, but is it realistic to expect success with a KO/Reid/Gino/Yanda/Oher line? That sounds awful to me. That's a lot of question marks in front of your 120million man.

What I think happens...assuming no McKinnie...they'll go forward with this lineup until preseason and see how it looks. If it's as disastrous as it sounds (to me) right now, they'll make changes at that point with a scrap heap veteran like Williams, Moll, Anderson, McKinnie in years past. Maybe they'll end up with a guy like the last two, who can provide something adequate for a season or two. Maybe they'll end up with a guy like the first two, who give you nothing. Just have to wait and see. They have put themselves in this position.

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Originally Posted by Bhcforlife

I think I'm more concerned with LG if KO gets moved than I am KO playing LT, although, again, I have concerns about that. Who realistically is their LG? Jah Reid? I mean he was better than Williams and Harewood, but is it realistic to expect success with a KO/Reid/Gino/Yanda/Oher line? That sounds awful to me. That's a lot of question marks in front of your 120million man.

What I think happens...assuming no McKinnie...they'll go forward with this lineup until preseason and see how it looks. If it's as disastrous as it sounds (to me) right now, they'll make changes at that point with a scrap heap veteran like Williams, Moll, Anderson, McKinnie in years past. Maybe they'll end up with a guy like the last two, who can provide something adequate for a season or two. Maybe they'll end up with a guy like the first two, who give you nothing. Just have to wait and see. They have put themselves in this position.

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If KO does indeed go to LT then it is Jah's job to lose at LG.

If the Ravens are hellbent on not signing McKinnie then I really think the next best option is to sign Eric Winston or Tyson Clabo to play RT and move Oher back to LT. At least that way we all know what we have at LT and Jim Caldwell can game plan effectively.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Forum Runner

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Originally Posted by Bhcforlife

I think I'm more concerned with LG if KO gets moved than I am KO playing LT ...

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I got your feeling too. Considering Reid and Harewood were inadequate at LG in 2012. Let's hope that rookies Ricky Wagner (Wisconsin) or Ryan Jensen (S. Colorado) can repeat KO's 2012 success... Bc

Congrats to the ten of you.