Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation

**Sascha** · 01-11-2014, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by AirFlacco

Rookies just aren't supposed to play but Elam got a lot of time in. Old school guys like George Allen and Lombardi never
played rookies. Hell, Allen traded most of his draft picks for vets and went to the SB with them.

I don't think it makes sense to compare rookies in today's NFL to rookies from decades ago. With the salary cap and the way that rookie contracts are now slotted, NFL teams are at a huge advantage when they can get meaningful production out of players who are still under their relatively inexpensive rookie contracts.

Luckily, rookie contracts usually last 4-5 years, so we still have another 3-4 years to get returns off of our 2012 draft class.

**4G63** · 01-11-2014, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Sascha

I don't think it makes sense to compare rookies in today's NFL to rookies from decades ago. With the salary cap and the way that rookie contracts are now slotted, NFL teams are at a huge advantage when they can get meaningful production out of players who are still under their relatively inexpensive rookie contracts.

Luckily, rookie contracts usually last 4-5 years, so we still have another 3-4 years to get returns off of our 2012 draft class.

Hence, you'll see teams like the Colts, Seahawks, and 49'ers have serious problems when those QB contracts come up. They're getting a pass now because those QB's are really cheap but will have trouble fielding competitive teams because they'll be commanding big $$$. I could see the Seahawks and 9ers having big issues, especially on the defensive side.

**JohnBKistler** · 01-11-2014, 11:45 AM

Last year (2012), the Browns led the league in rookie snaps.

Wow. They must have really good scouts and/or coaches that appreciate rookies and know how to coach 'em up.

**Haloti92** · 01-11-2014, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

Last year (2012), the Browns led the league in rookie snaps.

Wow. They must have really good scouts and/or coaches that appreciate rookies and know how to coach 'em up.

Rebuilding teams are obviously going to play young guys, because they are clearly willing to trade current performance/results for long-term experience and talent evaluation.

**BcRaven** · 01-11-2014, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by TL24x7

Not an issue...yet.

BUT...

Six picks not named Elam or Brown in 2013 (including Marc Anthony who was cut) combined for a total of 100 snaps. That’s not acceptable in the salary cap era when rosters need to be replenished by an influx of youthful talent, particularly a roster with heavyweight salaries like those of Messrs. Flacco, Rice, Yanda, Suggs, Ngata and Webb.

More of the same going forward will drive a wedge between scouts and coaches if the team fails in 2014. Finger pointing will commence as the scouts say the coaches are failing to teach and failing to provide an opportunity for the rookies to play.

Meanwhile the coaches will say the players aren’t good enough to earn the snaps.

Sometimes circumstances prevail to limit participation. Most loved the Arthur Brown pick, but he was injured (torn pectoral?) and underweight, so his playing time was limited. With Mt. Cody likely gone, and a full off-season of workouts/learning, then Brandon Williams may see a lot more of the field in 2014. Assuming the same fate for Leach, then perhaps KJ will see more offensive snaps too. K. Lewis-Moore who was on IR, some had him rated as high as a 2nd round pick, may take over Art Jones position in the Dline rotation. Sometimes rookies need a year or two before they see significant PT. With the Ravens picking dead last in 2013, I still feel Ozzie did a solid job considering draft position, so let's give this crop a little more time to establish themselves... Bc

**CopRaven** · 01-11-2014, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by 4G63

Hence, you'll see teams like the Colts, Seahawks, and 49'ers have serious problems when those QB contracts come up. They're getting a pass now because those QB's are really cheap but will have trouble fielding competitive teams because they'll be commanding big $$$. I could see the Seahawks and 9ers having big issues, especially on the defensive side.

And really, isn't that what has happened to us now? I'm not saying we have big issues and I'm fully aware that it's a myth that "Flacco ruined the team by being greedy". But together with the Packers we were the most succesful team from 2008-2012, led by some big names on their rookie contracts (namly Flacco and Rice, but Webb, Torrey and Pitta also comes to mind).

I actually think it's interesting to look at how some of the most succesful teams are build. On one hand you have teams like the 49'ers and Seahawks, who have good QBs on their rookie contracts, but also an extremely balanced team with good defenses and rushing attacks. On the other hands you have teams like the Broncos and Patriots with expensive QBs and much weaker defenses than the Seahawks and 49'ers. I think the way to go is that once you start paying your QB the big bucks, you must rely completely on him and build around him. If you look at the way the Broncos, Patriots, Saints and Packers are built, they have spent much more money on offense than defense. I think we need to do the same and then let the defense consist mostly of players on their rookie contracts. Those young, inexperinced defenses around the league are acutally doing really well.

**AirFlacco** · 01-11-2014, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Sascha

I don't think it makes sense to compare rookies in today's NFL to rookies from decades ago. With the salary cap and the way that rookie contracts are now slotted, NFL teams are at a huge advantage when they can get meaningful production out of players who are still under their relatively inexpensive rookie contracts

Yet, none of these rookies past Elam and Brown played. Coaches still want vets especially in crucial situations. Like Phil
said before the season started, KJ would play mostly special teams and that's the way it was while Brown was broken in slowly and even our #1 pick cost us at least 1 crucial game.

One point about this class I forgot to make was, Ozzie drafted at the very bottom and got Elam just like Heap at the bottom of his draft. Heap made that draft alone as Elam will make his draft a success alone even if all the lower picks fail. Elam and Brown will make this a great draft.

**Justlovemybirds** · 01-11-2014, 01:42 PM

In addition to Art Browns injury he was also transitioning from playing in a 4-3 defense in college to having to learn a 3-4 hybrid D. He still managed to be mostly effective as the nickel backer.

**Random Thoughts** · 01-11-2014, 01:44 PM

This is an interesting post... I certainly agree with the OP's general sentiment...

There are several circumstances that played in Brown (Marlon) and Elam favor.... Let's be fair.... Would Brown play that many snap if our WR corp wasn't so morbidly bad in the first two or three games? Would he if Jones didn't suffer an injury (thanks to that bonehead)?

As for Elam.... Elam played just 13 snaps in the first game, then started and played every snap in the second game against the Browns... That tells me that the coaching staff lost faith in Huff after reviewing the film.... Sure enough, Huff rarely saw the field after the first game...

How many times have we screamed why Arthur Brown wasnt in the game on third-downs? Yes, Brown was hurt, but he could be used situationally like Suggs was in his rookie year.

Now... let's put somethign else into perspective... Webb.... There was a consensus that Webb was a better player than Fabian Washington, yet Webb didnt start.... When Webb was finally getting around, he got hurt on a special team play....

Jimmy Smith? He got hurt in the first game, so it is hard to say... nonetheless, he got hurt on a special team play....

I think this coaching staff doesnt play rookies inasmuch because the staff isnt adapting to the rookies' skillset... The staff wants the rookies to fill in the departing veterans, that was why Tandon Doss was ahead of Brown until Flacco was clearly pissed at Doss... that was why Juice didn't see much offensive snaps or being used in situations...

I am not saying that the rookies should immediately play every down or whatsoever... they should at least be given chance to showcase their skillset on the field rather than "filling in" for the departed/injured veterans...

**AirFlacco** · 01-11-2014, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by 4G63

Hence, you'll see teams like the Colts, Seahawks, and 49'ers have serious problems when those QB contracts come up. They're getting a pass now because those QB's are really cheap but will have trouble fielding competitive teams because they'll be commanding big $$$. I could see the Seahawks and 9ers having big issues, especially on the defensive side.

We were just saying that at the water hole last night. SF has its day coming when Kap's contract comes up. Each of these great teams have a window and you better get in the SB when that window is open. Ravens made it in their window and\ won it. They should have made it two years in a row and won both of them but Lee Evans messed us up. That was our window but we got it all the next year.

Look at Pissburgh, they've missed POs two years in a row now and haven't been that great since their SB. They
got out of their window and restructured and got into CAP hell while getting old and slow. .

**AirFlacco** · 01-11-2014, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Random Thoughts

This is an interesting post... I certainly agree with the OP's general sentiment...

There are several circumstances that played in Brown (Marlon) and Elam favor.... Let's be fair.... Would Brown play that many snap if our WR corp wasn't so morbidly bad in the first two or three games? Would he if Jones didn't suffer an injury (thanks to that bonehead)?

As for Elam.... Elam played just 13 snaps in the first game, then started and played every snap in the second game against the Browns... That tells me that the coaching staff lost faith in Huff after reviewing the film.... Sure enough, Huff rarely saw the field after the first game...

How many times have we screamed why Arthur Brown wasnt in the game on third-downs? Yes, Brown was hurt, but he could be used situationally like Suggs was in his rookie year.

Now... let's put somethign else into perspective... Webb.... There was a consensus that Webb was a better player than Fabian Washington, yet Webb didnt start.... When Webb was finally getting around, he got hurt on a special team play....

Jimmy Smith? He got hurt in the first game, so it is hard to say... nonetheless, he got hurt on a special team play....

I think this coaching staff doesnt play rookies inasmuch because the staff isnt adapting to the rookies' skillset... The staff wants the rookies to fill in the departing veterans, that was why Tandon Doss was ahead of Brown until Flacco was clearly pissed at Doss... that was why Juice didn't see much offensive snaps or being used in situations...

I am not saying that the rookies should immediately play every down or whatsoever... they should at least be given chance to showcase their skillset on the field rather than "filling in" for the departed/injured veterans...

They're given that chance in training camp and very few beyond the top draft choices prove themselves worthy to get much playing time let alone starting until they've been around a while. Look how long it took Kruger to show something and he was a second round pick. It took Art Jones a while to get this good and he'll get a big contract now - same with Ellerbe and JJ who already got theirs but it took a while.

**bt12483** · 01-11-2014, 02:00 PM

If Juszczyk isn't folded into the offensive gameplan this year that pick was a waste. I just have no confidence our offensive coaches know how to use a guy like Juszczyk.

If Simon is only going to put up reps in the gym, that pick was also a waste given the depth we had at that position.

Right now both of last years 4th rd picks seem sketchy. Part of that is on the coaches part of that is on Ozzie.