NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

[flraven]

I thought that teams usually signed 30 year agreements when they move into a publicly funded stadium. Maybe that's just for baseball. But I don't see much of a point to adding a roof to M&T. Not many of our games have rain or snow, it's not like we're up north or anything, or down south where it gets really hot. The only real reason to do it would be to be able to host the Super Bowl.

In terms of the seating capacity issue. NFL stadia are artficially small due to the blackout rule. Every stadium in the league could comfortably be 100,000+ if they wanted to be (several college stadia are well over 100,000), but no team wants to risk a non sellout where the game won't be available to their home market. Get rid of the blackout rule, and you'll see stadia expanding, and tickets becoming more accessable to the masses.

I'm not so sure this would work. Didn't FedEx add several thousand seats to push their capacity up to about 90,000, only to remove most of them a couple years later? Granted, a lot of them were "obstructed view" seats like we used to have in the lower sections at Memorial Stadium.

[Real Fan Dan]

I don't think T is complaining.

But he is right, IMO. When it was built, it wasn't a top tier stadium. Here we are almost 20 years later, other stadia have been built since, pushing M&T further down the list in terms of accommodations. So in that regard, it does sit toward to bottom. I'd characterize it as the top of the list of the bottom 30% of stadia.

I'd put Oakland, Candlestick, FedEx, Miami (whatever they are calling it these days), Buffalo, San Diego and Tampa behind M&T.

The Ravens will play their 15th season in M&T this Fall.

To your list i would also add the stadia in Jacksonville, Nashville, Cleveland and San Diego. Those are the ones (plus your list) that I have been to that are not quite as good as M&T. I also didn't think much of the Superdome, but some folks think having a roof somehow makes the stadium better. I disagree. Football was meant to be played out of doors, in the cold.

Then there are the serious hellpits of the league, made so by the stench of the assholic fans moreso than the building itself: Philadelphia, New England and Oakland. Some would also say Pittsburgh, but i've been there - the place is cool and the people were nice. They just send all their assholes down here. ;)

[kenlutz]

The construction of new NFL stadiums or major upgrades has been accelerating at a pace similar to the mid/late-90s stadium boom:

• Cowboys & Cardinals new Taj Mahals, plus a new $2B Hackensack Dump in Jersey
• Superdome upgraded with Katrina reconstruction $$ (many thanks to you & me & other US taxpayers)
• Arrowhead got $1/2 billion new clubs, scoreboards
• Bears & Packers & Jaguars upgrades
• Miami added new escalators, expanded concourses, and plans to add a rooflet to shade fans
• Metrodome replacement is a legislative conference meeting away from funding
• Rams & St. Louis are trading proposals for mandatory hundreds of millions Dome upgrade
• Blank wants a new topless stadium built in safer area of Atlanta
• 49rs to build a new stadium at Santa Clara with $80,000 PSLs
• Raiders may follow into Santa Clara

Every NFL owner (except Ralph Wilson) is continually looking over his shoulder at what his business partners are doing -- e.g. ticket price gouging by all NFL teams. With half the NFL teams in new or recently refurbished stadiums, how long will it be until Steve Bisciotti makes demands for upgrades ... or hints that there are greener pastures elsewhere? :grbac:

It won't happen here because:

• Bisciotti is a local boy? Maybe. but he also became a billionaire by being a smart businessman
• our stadium is too new? maybe, but Atlanta, Jax rebuild, St Louis aren't old, and they are also modern football-only stadiums
• our publicly funded stadium helps make the Ravens profitable? Sure, but stadium upgrades could add to the profitability.

It's going to happen. I predict sooner rather than later: within 3 to 5 years the Ravens will start complaining about being in the lower tier of NFL stadiums and looking for a "public/private partnership" to fund upgrades. I predict in the $1/2 billion range. Watch your wallets!

(btw: Tony L had some April foolery about a new stadium a few months ago about building a new suburban stadium. That joke may not be far from the mark).

The avg life on an NFL stadium is 30 years before upgrades or repairs or even new stadium comes into play...so not for another 20 years or so

[flraven]

The Ravens will play their 15th season in M&T this Fall.

To your list i would also add the stadia in Jacksonville, Nashville, Cleveland and San Diego. Those are the ones (plus your list) that I have been to that are not quite as good as M&T. I also didn't think much of the Superdome, but some folks think having a roof somehow makes the stadium better. I disagree. Football was meant to be played out of doors, in the cold.

Then there are the serious hellpits of the league, made so by the stench of the assholic fans moreso than the building itself: Philadelphia, New England and Oakland. Some would also say Pittsburgh, but i've been there - the place is cool and the people were nice. They just send all their assholes down here. ;)

Agree with you about the Superdome, its like watching football in a movie theater.

And also Philly. They have a nice stadium, but the fans there are first class assholes. I've been showered with peanuts, and the vendors/concessions staff there are rude to the other team's fans. I happened to be there with a Steeler fan and the concessionaire refused to serve someone in a Steeler jersey. It was a preseason game against the Ravens, and these people were just plain assholes.

[Corvus Corax]

In the not too distant future, I perceive a trend toward REDUCED seating for live games. Ticket prices will go beyond even what middle-to-upper-middle incomes can afford. Only the rich will be able to afford to attend (and legitimately brag that they were there to witness) live sporting events. It will be very similar to live boxing matches in Las Vegas or Madison Square Garden where ringside seating will cost far more than Pay Per View (PPV). Season-ticket holders won't be attending games, they will instead be PPV subscribers. That means, of course, that only they and the rich (who will actually attend the games) will be the only ones watching.

If you think that is an absurd notion, let me remind you of pro sports events that used to be commonly televised free on one of the original three major airwaves networks (ABC, NBC, CBS). NHL games apparently are found only on the NBC Sports Channel (cable/satellite). NFL games are now on ESPN (Mondays) and the NFL network (Thursdays). NBA games are on ESPN/TNT. College football games on ESPN2/3. Almost all Oriole games are televised exclusively on MASN/MASN2. The poor miss a lot of action.

It is just a matter of time before most 'fans' (short for fanatics) will face a hard choice between lifestyle basics and watching their favorite team perform. How are they going afford to get their weekly/daily 'fix'?

CC

[RavenScallywag]

If you think that is an absurd notion, let me remind you of pro sports events that used to be commonly televised free on one of the original three major airwaves networks (ABC, NBC, CBS). NHL games apparently are found only on the NBC Sports Channel (cable/satellite). NFL games are now on ESPN (Mondays) and the NFL network (Thursdays). NBA games are on ESPN/TNT. College football games on ESPN2/3. Almost all Oriole games are televised exclusively on MASN/MASN2. The poor miss a lot of action.

But aren't our Thursday and Monday night games also picked up by a local affiliate? I only recently got cable back, and I still don't have the NFL network, but I remember watching the Falcons game in 2010...

[BcRaven]

In the not too distant future, I perceive a trend toward REDUCED seating for live games. Ticket prices will go beyond even what middle-to-upper-middle incomes can afford. Only the rich will be able to afford to attend (and legitimately brag that they were there to witness) live sporting events...

I'm cool with $1,000 tickets, $100 hot dogs, $75 beer, and $50 diet Cokes. I can take the wife and (5) kiddies to a game or two, and still have enough left over to support my sister-in-law. So what if I'm broke in my retirement years. Isn't a couple of live pro football games a year worth it? ... Bc

[flraven]

But aren't our Thursday and Monday night games also picked up by a local affiliate? I only recently got cable back, and I still don't have the NFL network, but I remember watching the Falcons game in 2010...

Unless something changes this year, a local affiliate (WJZ ?) usually carries games only shown on ESPN and NFLN.

[cmorris28]

In the not too distant future, I perceive a trend toward REDUCED seating for live games. Ticket prices will go beyond even what middle-to-upper-middle incomes can afford. Only the rich will be able to afford to attend (and legitimately brag that they were there to witness) live sporting events. It will be very similar to live boxing matches in Las Vegas or Madison Square Garden where ringside seating will cost far more than Pay Per View (PPV). Season-ticket holders won't be attending games, they will instead be PPV subscribers. That means, of course, that only they and the rich (who will actually attend the games) will be the only ones watching.

If you think that is an absurd notion, let me remind you of pro sports events that used to be commonly televised free on one of the original three major airwaves networks (ABC, NBC, CBS). NHL games apparently are found only on the NBC Sports Channel (cable/satellite). NFL games are now on ESPN (Mondays) and the NFL network (Thursdays). NBA games are on ESPN/TNT. College football games on ESPN2/3. Almost all Oriole games are televised exclusively on MASN/MASN2. The poor miss a lot of action.

It is just a matter of time before most 'fans' (short for fanatics) will face a hard choice between lifestyle basics and watching their favorite team perform. How are they going afford to get their weekly/daily 'fix'?

CC

I agree with this. There is too much money in PPV not to go that route. They will charge the average fan $10 a week to watch his or her favorite team and make billions. 9 Billion in revenues in 2012 will look like a drop in the bucket vs 30+ billion they could make PPV. Not sure I agree with ticket prices at the stadium but could happen.

[cmorris28]

Unless something changes this year, a local affiliate (WJZ ?) usually carries games only shown on ESPN and NFLN.

Local stations only pick up pre-season games.

[flraven]

Local stations only pick up pre-season games.

According to the Ravens web site, Week 1 against Cincinnati is on both ESPN and WJZ. So maybe its just when the games are on the NFL Network, people that don't get that channel can't see them.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/Gameday/Schedule.aspx

[JustaslowZ06]

We just got a bunch of upgrades, as someone else mentioned. Turf, HD Scoreboards, etc.....

I still think it's funny they have old tube TV's out in the concourse area, and NONE anywhere near the smoking sections in the lower area's. I've sent emails and letters requesting such but guess we'll see for this year, as nothing changed last year.

As it is I could see another 10 years or so before they even start talking new stadium. orry but anyoe who has traveled to other stadiums(not just seen them on TV) should know we still have a pretty damn good stadium. Fedex is newer and is a dump comparatively. Tenn same thing. Indy was nice, same with Reliant. The monstrosity in Dallas was pretty nice but yo can tell there are ALOT of seats where you can't see squat. And the list goes on.