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Thread: Mark Clayton and Torrey Smith
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02-25-2013, 06:59 AM #73Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: Mark Clayton and Torrey Smith
Brees and Fitzpatrick in Buffalo are both starting QB's who aren't on the team that drafted them. I haven't worked out the numbers, but it seems to me that more than half of QB's drafted in the first round don't work out for the team that drafted them. There are more Colt McCoys and Kyle Bollers, to my mind, then there are Flaccos.
You don't need a diamond in the rough. You need a good QB and a good coaching staff that knows how to set its players up for success.
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Re: Mark Clayton and Torrey Smith
Eli's pass to Manningham required a near-miracle catch by Manningham to result in a completion. It wasn't quite as miraculous as Tyree, but it also wasn't more catchable than the pass to Welker that Welker didn't catch. The actions of the receivers in those plays affected the rating of both QB's.
How exactly did Flacco cost "more" than a 1st rounder? The Ravens traded their 8th overall pick for the 26th pick, two thirds, and a fourth. Then they traded a third and a sixth for the 18th, and picked Flacco. So they gained a third and a fourth and lost a sixth. If anything, Flacco cost less than a first. Oh, and Jacksonville picked a DE with the 8th overall. Since that's a position other than quarterback, it's a sure thing right? Since apparently quarterback is the only position that's a gamble. Well Derrick Harvey has amounted to jackshit.
QB's aren't the only gamble in the draft, obviously. They're just the biggest gamble, especially when drafted in the first round. That gamble is lessened somewhat by the rookie salary cap (no more Bradfords), but you're still going to flail around for years trying to make sure this player is the real deal. It's the one position in football where you can't use the other players in his unit to cover up his deficiencies- there aren't any other players in his unit on the field. You can't give him help like you can the rookie LT. You can't just use his speed to pull off defenders like you can with a rookie WR. You can't roll a safety over the top like you can a rookie DB. More than any other position on the field, the QB is on his own. At most, you can have him hand the ball off a lot a la Roethlisberger his first several years or Flacco and the Three Headed Monster, but then you're not really getting a "good QB" capable of helping the team win. You're just trying to bide time until he develops the experience necessary to take the next step and carry his weight.
This idea of trying to sign mediocre journeyman quarterbacks to give your team the best chance at winning superbowls is beyond ridiculous. It's easier to find a franchise quarterback than it is to assemble one of the best defenses in NFL history, which is what it takes to win a Super Bowl with a mediocre journeymen quarterback.
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Re: Mark Clayton and Torrey Smith
JOE FLACCO had 11 TOUCHDOWNS and ZERO interceptions. He had a hall of fame playoffs. If Flacco had performed any worse than that, the Ravens don't win the Super Bowl. Flacco had probably the second greatest playoffs in NFL history. Your attempts to act like the Ravens just won the Super Bowl with a "good" quarterback has no basis in reality.
You seem to think that having a great team and great quarterback are mutually exclusive.
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Re: Mark Clayton and Torrey Smith
You have reading comprehension problems. At no point did I say the Ravens won the Super Bowl with just a "good" quarterback.
What I said was I initially disliked drafting Flacco in the first round, because drafting the wrong QB can set you back years. Any fan of this team ought to know that, as the Boller experiment didn't work out. You can get better value, imo, drafting other positions, especially when it takes more than just that single pick to get the QB you want.
It's worked out for the Ravens with Flacco. I'm as happy as most other Ravens fans about that, and I was happy about it even before this year. I've been a Flacco defender against his critics here and elsewhere, and I'm in the "pay the man" camp insofar as his contract negotiations are going. But that doesn't change my general position that a team is better off working to get the pieces to surround a good QB with than trying to draft the next Manning, Elway or Marino. There are more than 32 good QB's in the NFL for a good coaching staff that knows how to set their players up for success, especially in this age of parity.
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Re: Mark Clayton and Torrey Smith
Let's look at quarterbacks who have won:
Joe
Eli
Aaron
Drew Brees
Ben
Eli
Peyton
Ben
Tom Brady
Tom Brady
Brad Johnson
Tom Brady
Trent
Kurt Warner
John
John
Brett Favre
Troy
Steve
Troy
Troy
Mark Rypien
Phil
Joe Montana
Joe Montana
Doug
Phil
Jim
Joe Montana
Jim
Joe Theismann
Joe Montana
Jim
Terry
Terry
Roger Staubach
Ken Stabler
Terry
Terry
Bob
Bob
Roger Staubach
JOHNNY UNITAS
Len
Joe (fuck you)
Bart Starr
Bart Starr
Quarterbacks with only first name listed were first rounders.
28 of the 47 Super Bowls have been won by first rounders.
But in the last 20 years? Only 7 superbowls have been won by non- first rounders.
Oh, and 11 of those were between Montana, Brady, Starr, and Staubach. So unless if you manage to snag one of the greatest quarterbacks of all-time in the late, late rounds of the draft.. Chances are you're going to need to draft a quarterback in the first.Last edited by PurpleApocalypse37; 02-27-2013 at 10:40 PM.
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Re: Mark Clayton and Torrey Smith
No Super Bowls have ever been won by a QB. The closest any QB ever came to winning a SB was Elway in the '80s, and he was stomped in all three of them.
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02-28-2013, 08:31 PM #80
Re: Mark Clayton and Torrey Smith
When your fast is almost as important as how fast you actually are. Explosive speed that a player can turn on at any point or what many call the "afterburner" is difficult for DB's to recover from were as a guy with flatline speed like Clayton can be adjusted for by playing off etc....
“A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,”
-Ray Lewis
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Re: Mark Clayton and Torrey Smith
i wasnt a member of these boards at the time, but i thought Clayton was the safe pick. good routes, good hands, and he did get a good bit of YAC at Oklahoma. I dont think he was ever put into position to succeed here. If we didnt have Mason, he probably could have had similar production as he was a direct mold of the guy. In that draft I was interested in Matt Jones, so i cant really say anything. Former QB with that height and speed, and surprisingly decent hands but it just never came together for him, probably because of his off field hobbies.
-JAB
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