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  1. #193
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    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I think your being naive if you think Flacco is going to get less than a top flight contract. The trend around the NFL is to pay ascending QB's top dollar. I don't expect to see him pulling almost 20 million a year like Manning did at one point but Flacco is definitely going to get in the low to mid- teens.

    I don't see any scenario what so ever that the Ravens allow Flacco unrestricted access to free agency. I think you'd be surprised how much more they'd have to pay to keep him if that happened. Arizona and KC gave unproven QB's like Kolb and Cassell 70 million dollar deals. A proven winner like Flacco could easily pull more than 100 million from a desperate team.
    The Ravens aren't desperate. And they are notorious for not overpaying their players. It's the primary reason they don't find themselves in cap jail on a yearly basis. If Flacco's demands prove to be unreasonable to them, they will let him walk. No one holds them hostage. I have yet to see it.





  2. #194
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    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    The Ravens aren't desperate. And they are notorious for not overpaying their players. It's the primary reason they don't find themselves in cap jail on a yearly basis. If Flacco's demands prove to be unreasonable to them, they will let him walk. No one holds them hostage. I have yet to see it.
    You've also never seen the team negotiate a contract with a good QB.
    And to say the team NEVER gets desperate is an exaggeration. The team was desperate for CB's in 2009 and they overpaid for Dominque Foxworth. Even without his injury that was a terrible contract for him. The team was desperate for a RB and not only did they give up several picks in a trade but they gave up a huge contract to a RB (McGahee) who at the time had only averaged 4 yards per carry once in his career.

    There are alot of positions where the Ravens have the luxury of saying take it or leave it to their players but QB is not one of them.





  3. #195
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    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by redmike34 View Post
    The counter-argument to this would be that the lockout was the same for all teams, and despite that it was a record-setting year for passers, but not so much for Joe.

    I don't know that any QB will ever get a mega-deal out of the Ravens franchise. It comes down to scheme, as others have mentioned. The question you have to ask is, if Drew Brees and Joe Flacco traded places, what would be their relative results? Would Brees do significantly better than Flacco in the Ravens offense? I think he'd do somewhat better, but he'd not be putting up 5000 yard, 110+ rating seasons. Conversely, I don't think Flacco would do quite as well as Brees in the Saints system, but I have little doubt that his numbers would be better than they are here--better weapons, more QB-friendly scheme, etc.

    Having said that, the question is not so much what is a franchise Q worth in the NFL, it's what is a franchise QB worth to the Ravens? It's hard to say that a franchise QB is worth as much to the Ravens as he would be to other teams. Baltimore doesn't have the sort of offensive weapons, IMO, that can support any QB having an over-the-moon statistical season, because they run the ball more than other teams and rely on the defense more than other teams. The Ravens' three biggest cap hits are defensive players--I wonder how many other NFL teams that is true for?

    Bottom line--paying Flacco a ton of money doesn't make sense to me unless you decide to spend the sort of money, and make the scheme changes, that would make the QB position more critical to the Ravens as a football team.
    As far as the lockout goes, which of those other teams relied so heavily on unproven talent that were even more greatly effected by the lockout?... the answer is none. nobody had as green of a receiving unit as we did last year. Drew brees, Brady, Eli, Rodgers, and Stafford all had vet WRs that also were with the team for years. Thats a really unfair argument, even if it is the counter.

    I dont necessarily disagree with everything you say here but if hes a top 5-10 QB based on ability you keep that player, even if hes only using 80% of his ability in your system, because quite frankly, systems change, coaches change, great QBs dont.

    As far as him asking for top 5 money, Im not seeing whats so bad about that when looking at the top 5 highest paid for 2012 its actually lower than what most of us are saying hes probably going to get. 12/year sounds like a bargain to me.

    Top Quarterback Salaries 2012
    -JAB





  4. #196
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    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    The Ravens aren't desperate. And they are notorious for not overpaying their players. It's the primary reason they don't find themselves in cap jail on a yearly basis. If Flacco's demands prove to be unreasonable to them, they will let him walk. No one holds them hostage. I have yet to see it.
    I know you're a massive Flacco-Hater and all, but the Ravens have never had a legitimate QB that they can consider their "franchise" QB.

    Joe will get paid. He's been nothing but successful since his rookie year and there is 0% chance that Steve Bisciotti lets Flacco hit free agency because if he does, then he's gone and the Ravens are back to square 1 with trying to figure out their QB situation.
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.





  5. #197
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    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    The Ravens aren't desperate. And they are notorious for not overpaying their players. It's the primary reason they don't find themselves in cap jail on a yearly basis. If Flacco's demands prove to be unreasonable to them, they will let him walk. No one holds them hostage. I have yet to see it.
    Not a chance because every team is desperate when it comes to finding a quarterback.





  6. #198
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    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Not a chance because every team is desperate when it comes to finding a quarterback.
    much like we were since 1996 all the way until 2008, when we finally got one.
    -JAB





  7. #199

    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    The Ravens aren't desperate. And they are notorious for not overpaying their players. It's the primary reason they don't find themselves in cap jail on a yearly basis. If Flacco's demands prove to be unreasonable to them, they will let him walk. No one holds them hostage. I have yet to see it.
    The team tried the plug and play QB for 10 years with inconsistent success. They finally have a qb and have made the playoffs 4 years in a row. The Ravens will never let Flacco hit free agency. They should get the deal done this year as they will lose a ton of leverage if they have to franchise him next year. The Brees' deal will push the franchise number up next year. It will also start off a string of re negotiations with top guys pushing their yearly numbers up to 20m plus. Kolb got 12m over 5 years. Flacco is probably looking at 7 years 105. The sticking point will be guaranteed money. Ravens probably want the signing bonus split between year 1 and year 3 which will allow them to save cap money and get out of the contract if things go badly.





  8. #200
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    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I know you're a massive Flacco-Hater and all, but the Ravens have never had a legitimate QB that they can consider their "franchise" QB.

    Joe will get paid. He's been nothing but successful since his rookie year and there is 0% chance that Steve Bisciotti lets Flacco hit free agency because if he does, then he's gone and the Ravens are back to square 1 with trying to figure out their QB situation.
    Not a Flacco hater. I just don't think he's worth top 5 money like his agent believes.





  9. #201

    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    They would give him the franchise tag before giving it to anyone else.

    Flacco won't hit the market. It just won't happen.
    Not in 2013, but I was talking about the chance it happens against the chance a longterm deal is struck. I wasn't really talking about a specific year. But as ballhawk said, we could probably get something for him in a trade-after-franchise situation.

    For the record, I think he signs to a longterm deal.

    I was just disagreeing with some of the comments that imply that there exists no level of demands that the Ravens would refuse. And as I said, I think there is no chance the Ravens lowball Flacco, and a good chance we overpay him relative to his performance so far; but I don't think there is quite a 0 percent chance that Flacco sticks to crazy demands to the end. I hope that doesn't happen, but I think there is small chance it could.





  10. #202
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    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    Not in 2013, but I was talking about the chance it happens against the chance a longterm deal is struck. I wasn't really talking about a specific year. But as ballhawk said, we could probably get something for him in a trade-after-franchise situation.

    For the record, I think he signs to a longterm deal.

    I was just disagreeing with some of the comments that imply that there exists no level of demands that the Ravens would refuse. And as I said, I think there is no chance the Ravens lowball Flacco, and a good chance we overpay him relative to his performance so far; but I don't think there is quite a 0 percent chance that Flacco sticks to crazy demands to the end. I hope that doesn't happen, but I think there is small chance it could.
    Well, of course if Flacco asks for a 7 year $200 million dollar deal, then obviously that's not going to fly and he and his agent know it.

    However, there is precedent for various contracts signed by QB's around the level/ability/age that he is.
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.





  11. #203

    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I think your being naive if you think Flacco is going to get less than a top flight contract. The trend around the NFL is to pay ascending QB's top dollar. I don't expect to see him pulling almost 20 million a year like Manning did at one point but Flacco is definitely going to get in the low to mid- teens.

    I don't see any scenario what so ever that the Ravens allow Flacco unrestricted access to free agency. I think you'd be surprised how much more they'd have to pay to keep him if that happened. Arizona and KC gave unproven QB's like Kolb and Cassell 70 million dollar deals. A proven winner like Flacco could easily pull more than 100 million from a desperate team.
    "Top flight" is fairly relative. In 2010, Brady signed a 5 year, $78.5M contract (with $48.5M guaranteed). That is "only" $15.7M per year, but the guaranteed money was huge. In 2012, Peyton signed a 5 year, $96M contract (with only $18M truly guaranteed, and another $40M guaranteed pending a 2013 physical). That is $19.2M per year, but included no signing bonus, so the last two years (at $19M per year) could be jettisoned without much damage.

    At some point there has to be a line drawn as to what demands one will give into. It is this line I am trying to a) get people to admit exists, and b) get people to talk about or guess.

    In other words, if Flacco demands 7 years for $120M, with $42M guaranteed, what happens?





  12. #204

    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Well, of course if Flacco asks for a 7 year $200 million dollar deal, then obviously that's not going to fly and he and his agent know it.

    However, there is precedent for various contracts signed by QB's around the level/ability/age that he is.
    How about 7 for $120M?

    And as for level/ability/age, I agree, but people seem to be implying that once a QB is above a certain level of quality, there is no sense in comparing or discriminating regarding the differences in talent levels because you have no choice but to sign him to the best deals around.





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