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Thread: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy
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05-22-2012, 01:46 PM #133
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Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy
Ray Rice has had just as many impressive playoffs games as Flacco. If Rice has slipped in the playoffs, due to the offensive line, Flacco has, due to the WRs and the offensive line and you can see it for yourself.
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05-22-2012, 01:48 PM #134
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Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy
If it came from Hensley than ESPN is once again contradicting itself. The 10 million per year comment that I made yesterday came from, I believe, Adam Schefter.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...vens-ray-rice/
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05-22-2012, 01:57 PM #135
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05-22-2012, 02:03 PM #136
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Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy
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05-22-2012, 02:08 PM #137
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Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy
I just don't understand how, whenever Rice slips, even though the offense is focused around him, Rice is more likely to get a pass. However, when Flacco slips, in an offense non-conducive to developing QBs, he hasn't shown that he can handle more. He's shown that he can make the throws. The front office has spoken. They'd rather win 15-12 than 42-38, and they've made that clear, both verbally and through the moves they've made.
To their credit, they've tried to get some better WRs. However, the first time he makes a mistake, they take the ball from him. If he doesn't throw the pass darn near perfectly, it rarely gets caught. They don't let him really sling it until they have no other choice and they still don't really give him significant input in the on-field management of the offense, even though that has somewhat improved.Last edited by The Excellector; 05-22-2012 at 02:16 PM.
"Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore
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05-22-2012, 02:09 PM #138Hall Of Fame Poster
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Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy
Hensley said today that Rice wants $30mil guaranteed and that the ravens are offering $20mil guaranteed. The $10mil that is getting thrown around is the difference between the two sides. If true, this is probably Rice's last year in bmore (maybe 2013). I think its just baseless speculation though, and a fancy way of saying that rice wants AP/CJ money while the ravens are offering foster/mccoy money.
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05-22-2012, 02:22 PM #140Hall Of Fame Poster
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Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy
When did he say that? Is the blog below the one you're referring to you because if it is Hensley is purely speculating.
The Ravens and running back Ray Rice continue to talk, which is a positive sign. But the sides have not made any progress toward a new deal, a source familiar with the talks told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.
Rice
The deadline for Rice and the Ravens to strike a new deal is 56 days away. If he doesn't sign a contract by July 16, he will play under the $7.7 million franchise tag.
The fact that there's been a lack of progress shows the struggle to find a middle ground. Rice probably believes he deserves a contract closer to the one given to the Titans' Chris Johnson (six years with $30 million guaranteed). In fact, Rice has had more total yards over the past three years than Johnson.
But the Ravens are likely trying to get the money closer to the deals recently signed by Arian Foster (five years, $43.5 million with $20.75 million guaranteed) and LeSean McCoy (five-year, $45 million with $20.76 million guaranteed). Baltimore can argue that is now the market value for running backs.
Until the sides can bridge a $10 million difference in the guaranteed money, there will be no progress made toward a new deal.
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05-22-2012, 02:26 PM #141
Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy
if we cant talk about speculation what can we talk about, i think its safe to say that people who say its not worth paying ray that is based on the fact if it WERE true... We have no way of knowing if it is or isnt, but we're still within our rights to give our opinion on it, and if it turns out to be false so be it....
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05-22-2012, 02:34 PM #142Hall Of Fame Poster
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Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy
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05-22-2012, 02:35 PM #143Veteran Poster
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Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy
And I disagree for the reasons I stated.
Except McCoy only had 18 less attempts than Rice and played a full game less. Per game rushing attempts were: Rice 18.1875, and McCoy 18.2. If Rice's rushing attempts are "absurd" in number, than so were McCoy's last year. As for receptions I already addressed why those are higher, and the big reason is the checkdown vs the scramble. The Eagles run more screens than we do, and I suspect (because they have a better, more varied passing game) they have more designed routes to the RB (circle routes, etc). My only point is that Rice is used as an emergency back more than McCoy; you can argue as to why, but I would argue that Rice bails out more bad (passing) plays for our team than McCoy does for theirs.
I disagree, and the total number of rushes backs me up. The receptions are tougher to gauge, but Rice is more valuable in that respect.
Huh? Not sure why you are so confident in this proclamation, check the rankings:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...-lines-part-2/
Let's also establish the fact that O-line is but a small part of the equation; a predictable offense is much more of a factor than the intrinsic quality of your O-line. As is the quality/threat of your passing attack, in terms of how often the opposition can risk putting an extra guy in the box (vs us that is a lot of the time).
Yeah, it is difficult to know, but the stronger your passing attack the riskier it is for the opposition to ignore the pass in favor of the run.
Run heavy doesn't indicate stacked boxes. Run heavy indicates success on the ground, and specifically vs success of your passing game. If your coach thinks your best chance is to run the ball even if you are getting 3.5 yards a carry, that is an indictment on your passing game. And it occurred more with us than with Philly, who would stop running (low attempts) when the run wasn't doing well. Like vs SF where McCoy ran it 9 times (for 18), and Rice ran it 21 for 59. In both cases SF was stuffing the run, in our game it was low scoring and our pass O sucked also, so we kept running it. A better passing game and/or a higher scoring game and we abandon the run, rely less on Rice and don't force him to slam it into a brutal run defense. Run heavy can also indicate games where you are ahead and just killing clock late in the game. This would be times where there were stacked boxes, but they are also times where the other team may have given up; hard to say how that situation effects the YPC. I would say the closer the game (smaller the lead) and the better the run defense (or the team you are beating), the harder it is to run in clock-killing sitting-on-lead situations.
But it doesn't need to be much to explain a .1 per carry difference, which is all we are talking about. Pitt, Cincy, Cleveland's run defense averaged 4.1465 per carry allowed. Washington, Dallas, Giants run defense averaged 4.2998 per carry allowed. Or a difference of .1533 per carry, more than what we are quibbling about in terms of Rice vs McCoy. That said, just from a glance (too lazy to calculate exactly vs eyeballing it), it looks like the other 5 uncommon opponents eats into that difference, leaving approximately .11 per carry difference for the 11 total uncommon opponents.
2010 stats do not change the general premise that Rice gets many more checkdown receptions on busted passing plays than McCoy does, due to the fact Vick runs a ton more than Flacco. As for the specific differences in McCoy's receptions and Vicks carries from 2010 to 2011 they can be explained by other factors. For starters, the Eagles ran the ball more this year (designed runs) than last year. Total runs from all running backs in 2010: 285. Total runs from running backs in 2011: 342. Less dropbacks equals less checkdowns and scrambles. As for McCoy's receptions, he got 27 receptions in 2010 in games where Kolb played the entire or majority of the game (similar to Joe checking down I assume). That makes up some of the drop from 2010 to 2011 in McCoy receptions; the decreased dropbacks (more straight runs) can explain a lot of the rest. And as you imply, so can better WR options for Vick, etc, but this also doesn't undermine my point (which is only that Rice gets receptions in our offense a lot of times because he is the receiver of last resort).Last edited by Haloti92; 05-22-2012 at 02:48 PM.
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05-22-2012, 03:19 PM #144
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Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy
When we're talking money and cap space you can throw a lot of that stuff out the window. I don't disagree with you in terms of on the field performance. From what I've seen though that doesn't always equate to a team's willingness to devote a certain amount of cap space to that player or position.
Quarterbacks, Cornerbacks and pass rushers get paid in this league. Recently you've see big money thrown at Guards. Running backs, linebackers, tight ends and centers aren't getting the huge money no matter how good they are.
Throw out the system and what the player can do in it. Instead just focus on what the player would be worth as a free agent. Just based on what Matt Flynn got it's easy to project Joe Flacco getting a huge contract. Based on what other top running backs got this year it's easy to project Ray Rice getting something similar to what they got.
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