Troy Smith edging out competition

[purplepoe]

Billick is gone, and so is the era of appointing starting positions. Boller will have to play better than both Smith and the rookie, or he will be out of here.
Personally I am rooting for a resurection of a promising talent wasted by Billick's boneheaded approach. I would pt my money on Troy Smith to win based on what I have seen, even in the "hoorible Seatle performance when he was "almost" intercepted a couple times and still played better than McNair did most of the time last year. Seattle was a playoff team at home late in the season against a rookie QB, no Heap, and 3 rookie linemen.

Forget about 2009, the Ravens are still in contention to win in 2008 no matter who wins the QB job, there will be plenty of talent on the team, and finally we should have a coach who knows how to use it.

So this team has plenty of talent on offense huh?

Okey doke.

PP

[RavensNTerps]

Gee, sorry Losac.

Let me rephrase that.

We'll have a great season with a bust QB and an unproven guy with no legit WRs and a suspect OL.

I know, a new system is gonna be the cure all, right?

PP

in 2003 we made the playoffs with Anthony Wright at QB and Marcus Robinson, Clarence Moore, Kevin Johnson, Frank Sanders, Travis Taylor, Milton Wynn, and Randy Hymes at WR....and Ethan Brooks at RT.

So yes, it could happen.

[purplepoe]

in 2003 we made the playoffs with Anthony Wright at QB and Marcus Robinson, Clarence Moore, Kevin Johnson, Frank Sanders, Travis Taylor, Milton Wynn, and Randy Hymes at WR....and Ethan Brooks at RT.

So yes, it could happen.

We also had a defense where pretty much every starter was in their prime.

Not so much now.

The Browns and Bengals were terrible then. Different story now.

Do you think the 2008 Defense can carry a subpar offense to the playoffs? I don't.

PP

[HoustonRaven]

PP,

I's still put the Bengals in the terrible category -- they moved backward this off season.

[Jeremiah W]

Willis, Heap and Mason are all good enough to start almost anywhere. Grubbs and Brown look like they will be very good, and would be starting on most teams. Williams and Clayton both looked good in 2006. Flynn, Terry, Brown and Chester played a lot of snaps in 2006 on a line that only allowed 17 sacks, so the fact that we have young and unproven guys, like Rice, Gaither, Yanda and others, does not mean they will not be good.

Bet the other way if you must, but don't try to convice me with pure pessimism based soley on last season, because the Cleveland Clowns won 10 games for the first time, and the Cards and Lions looked like solid playoff teams for the first 8 weeks. Eli Manning was getting publicly punked for the first 8 weeks last year, but who had his ugly mug on the Disney Land spot?

Derrick Anderson and Jamal Lewis both got a whole lot better at playing football when they got out of the Billick system, so I wan't to see what it does for the rest of the team, including Boller to work with a proven OC, before I conceed the lack of talon argument.

[purplepoe]

PP,

I's still put the Bengals in the terrible category -- they moved backward this off season.

They aren't as bad as they were back then.

Are they good? Nah. They've got issues out the wazoo for sure.

PP

[purplepoe]

Willis, Heap and Mason are all good enough to start almost anywhere. Grubbs and Brown look like they will be very good, and would be starting on most teams. Williams and Clayton both looked good in 2006. Flynn, Terry, Brown and Chester played a lot of snaps in 2006 on a line that only allowed 17 sacks, so the fact that we have young and unproven guys, like Rice, Gaither, Yanda and others, does not mean they will not be good.

Bet the other way if you must, but don't try to convice me with pure pessimism based soley on last season, because the Cleveland Clowns won 10 games for the first time, and the Cards and Lions looked like solid playoff teams for the first 8 weeks. Eli Manning was getting publicly punked for the first 8 weeks last year, but who had his ugly mug on the Disney Land spot?

Derrick Anderson and Jamal Lewis both got a whole lot better at playing football when they got out of the Billick system, so I wan't to see what it does for the rest of the team, including Boller to work with a proven OC, before I conceed the lack of talon argument.

Yes, McGahee is a very solid RB. I dunno where our offense would've been without him last year. Heap, when on the field, is very good as well. No arguing there. Mason is a solid possession guy. He poses no major threat as far as a game breaker. Neither do Clayton and Williams. Williams has done VERY little to garner the praise he gets on some of these message boards. Sorry, he just hasn't. Clayton is a #2 at best. We have no legit #1 WR.

The middle of the young (Grubbs/Brown/Yanda) looks very promising. Chester has basically already lost his job at center. The tackle position is VERY suspect as inserting Gaither in at LT is gonna be a work in progress. As far as Terry on the right side? Well, we see how long that lasts once Harbaugh and Cameron see it in person. Because he's a LT, period.

And believe me, I'm not basing my opinion on just last year. I'm basing it on what I see.

It basically boils down to this. You believe Billick was a terrible coach as far as the offense. IMO, while I didn't always agree with his approach and play calling, the players are MUCH more accountable than the coach. They flat out couldn't execute many plays that were design just fine.

I'm not sure what your point is about the other teams you mentioned. Yes, the Lions started out strong and faded big time. So what? The Browns won 10 games and missed the playoffs. Again, how does this pertain to how well the Ravens offense will do? Certainly you're not gonna tell me that the Ravens have nearly the same talent on offense that Cleveland has. Are you?

PP

[Jeremiah W]

I mean even teams that always lose like Cleveland AZ, and detroit can even auire enough talent to compete in todays era of parity. The difference between the best and worse was never more evident than last year week 13 when Boller alomst beat the Pats. They were on a 12 game win streak and we were in the midst of a 9 game swoon, but would have beat them if not for an untimley time out or a number of suspect 4th down flags.

Back to the Billick factor. I was not for firing him at first, even though I had no confidence in his playcalling/ gameplanning or offensive coordination, I did at least respect and admire his personality and leadership style.

From putting the wrong guy on the feild at the wrong time, to the 3 yard out route on 3rd and 7, to the 10 false starts for every off side penalty they drew. The shotgun formation 3 times in a row, with Willis on the bench and Boller throwing passes in the dirt on 2nd 3rd and 4th and 1 last year in Buff was beyond my understanding of what is prudent.
Not going for the win in Miami. Not going for the TD so many times.

I know he was not personally out there fumbling the ball with no contact or throwing into tripple coverage, while up by 10 against the wind lat in the 3rd vs NE, but he was calling the plays and playing the wrong guy.

He should have had a roster spot open for the kicker and we would have beat the Clowns, but since he had Stover kicking to Cribbs at the 10 yard line, we got beat in OT.

Even if Billick was not personally responsible for half the mistakes made, how many times, if ever, have you watched a game he called and said that was a great job by him? Gilbride had a great run in the post season last year scheming up efficient O for NY, who had lost Shockey and had the RB and #1 WR nursing bad knee bruises and strains. How "dominant was the Clown O line before 2007? Gaither is capable of matching the season Joe Thomas did as a rookie, and Grubbs, Brown and Yanda/Chester, have the potential to be an even better interior line than they have. RT is still a uestion mark, but they lost (Cle) their RT for 4 games for steroids, so perhaps they will be juicing up Terry this offseason.

The turnovers and injuries were bigger, more obvious reasons for the faliure last year, but there were a lot of injuries and turnovers in part because of bad playcalling and scheme.

Have I mentioned the playclock issues with Billick? The lack of motion, audibles, changing formation? I really could go on and on in detail, but I think it will be very obvious as soon as they put on the pads, that there is a lot of talent on O, and Billick was not good at managing it on many levels.

[purplepoe]

I mean even teams that always lose like Cleveland AZ, and detroit can even auire enough talent to compete in todays era of parity. The difference between the best and worse was never more evident than last year week 13 when Boller alomst beat the Pats. They were on a 12 game win streak and we were in the midst of a 9 game swoon, but would have beat them if not for an untimley time out or a number of suspect 4th down flags.

Back to the Billick factor. I was not for firing him at first, even though I had no confidence in his playcalling/ gameplanning or offensive coordination, I did at least respect and admire his personality and leadership style.

From putting the wrong guy on the feild at the wrong time, to the 3 yard out route on 3rd and 7, to the 10 false starts for every off side penalty they drew. The shotgun formation 3 times in a row, with Willis on the bench and Boller throwing passes in the dirt on 2nd 3rd and 4th and 1 last year in Buff was beyond my understanding of what is prudent.
Not going for the win in Miami. Not going for the TD so many times.

I know he was not personally out there fumbling the ball with no contact or throwing into tripple coverage, while up by 10 against the wind lat in the 3rd vs NE, but he was calling the plays and playing the wrong guy.

He should have had a roster spot open for the kicker and we would have beat the Clowns, but since he had Stover kicking to Cribbs at the 10 yard line, we got beat in OT.

Even if Billick was not personally responsible for half the mistakes made, how many times, if ever, have you watched a game he called and said that was a great job by him? Gilbride had a great run in the post season last year scheming up efficient O for NY, who had lost Shockey and had the RB and #1 WR nursing bad knee bruises and strains. How "dominant was the Clown O line before 2007? Gaither is capable of matching the season Joe Thomas did as a rookie, and Grubbs, Brown and Yanda/Chester, have the potential to be an even better interior line than they have. RT is still a uestion mark, but they lost (Cle) their RT for 4 games for steroids, so perhaps they will be juicing up Terry this offseason.

The turnovers and injuries were bigger, more obvious reasons for the faliure last year, but there were a lot of injuries and turnovers in part because of bad playcalling and scheme.

Have I mentioned the playclock issues with Billick? The lack of motion, audibles, changing formation? I really could go on and on in detail, but I think it will be very obvious as soon as they put on the pads, that there is a lot of talent on O, and Billick was not good at managing it on many levels.

No doubt that the difference between a winning season and losing season is very small.

You mention all these things that Billick did wrong and I ask, why couldn't the players execute the play? I was at the Buffalo game. I saw Boller throw to a wide open Clayton that would've been a first down on that last drive but Boller threw it at his feet. People screamed for McGahee there. What if he gives to McGahee up the middle and Flynn gets rolled (as usual) and he gets stuffed. Then you have the "why is he running when time is a factor on the last drive" crowd.

I'm not saying Billick was a top notch game manager. What I am saying is that countless times the players flat out stunk the joint up at crucial times.

The NE game was Boller's fault. No excuse for that piss poor throw. Billick was going to the jugular and Boller crapped the bed again.

The Browns line was dominant due to the Thomas pick and the Steinbach signing. Two studs. Thomas came in a dominated from day 1. Jared Gaither? Hell, the team isn't even sold on him having the work ethic to be a starter, let alone a stud LT. Gaither might be capable of being great. Lots of guys are. I see you are careful by using the word capable and I would just say this. It would be a miracle if Gaither came close to performing as well as Thomas did last year. Dude was a monster from day 1.

As far as the roster goes. Ozzie Newsome controls it. Always has.

Im not sure why you are mentioning Chester. He's a backup and he was basically dominated all last year. And while the middle of the line has the makings of something special, the two bookends are massive question marks. I cannot just say that it's gonna be OK because frankly, I don't think it will. And let's be honest, we must get good play, especially from the LT, for any QB to see success.

I'm baffled by your statement that alot of the injuries and turnovers this team had is tied to bad play calling and scheme. Seriously, that's a little ridiculous. Turnovers are made by being careless and not executing. And the scheme somehow contributing to injuries? Cmon.

I will contend that this team still lacks talent on offense to be a legit unit.

PP

[evade6317]

Smith>Boller. Case closed.

[TTRaven]

Unless Troy Smith shows significantly greater skills than Boller, and assuming that Flacco carries the clipboard, I expect Harbaugh to go with the more experienced Boller. Harbaugh also has watched the tape of Smith's dismal performance against the Seahawks. There's little logic in gambling on Smith in 2008, because he is not likely to play a meaningful role in 2009, when Flacco should take over fulltime. Smith should be a very cheap backup, but I don't believe our organization projects him as an NFL starter. He hasn't grown since arriving here.

There's little logic in going with a 5 year vet who has shown no signs of improvement. Why waste your time with a below average QB who will not be here past this season?

Also your comment about Harbaugh watching Smith's game against the Seahawks is absolutely ridiculous. Harbaugh has also watched 5 years of dreadful play from Boller. Somehow you failed to mention that in your post. I wonder why?

[festivus]

I will contend that this team still lacks talent on offense to be a legit unit.

I agree 100% with this statement. Be mindful, PP, that when the season starts the offense will have comparatively greater success anyway.

Why?

DC's will not have tape of the new Ravens offensive scheme yet.

Anyway I'll be curious to see how we look over the course of the year as defenses are better & better prepared.