Ravens hire Steve Spagnuolo

**Ravenalytics** · 05-05-2013, 07:46 AM

I'm more interested in bringing in a young guy (Shurmur?) to become the potential replacement to Caldwell after he gets snatched back up.

**GOTA** · 05-05-2013, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenalytics

I'm more interested in bringing in a young guy (Shurmur?) to become the potential replacement to Caldwell after he gets snatched back up.

Shurmur is the OC of the Eagles.

**Paintballguy** · 05-05-2013, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

I'm indifferent about this hire and kind of surprised at some of the excitement.

He had one good year. That's it.

Apparently, he's known for his film work and great in meetings. Just because a coach didn't do well as a head coach doesn't make them a bad coach.

**wickedsolo** · 05-05-2013, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

Apparently, he's known for his film work and great in meetings. Just because a coach didn't do well as a head coach doesn't make them a bad coach.

I agree with this sentiment.

How many coordinators do we see totally bomb as a HC, but then are some of the best coordinators around? The history of the NFL is littered with guys like that.

Spags didn't do so well as the DC in New Orleans last year, but they were kind of devoid of talent to begin with and that entire team was snakebitten from the Bounty Gate crap.

The talent on the Ravens' D far exceeds that of the Saints. Considering Spags coached pass rushers like Osi, Strahan, and Tuck, I am hopeful that he'll bring some good perspective and techniques for Suggs, Upshaw, Dumervil, and Simon.

**The Excellector** · 05-05-2013, 05:29 PM

It seems like the front office is trying to do a better job of preparing for exiting coaches, by maintaining quality depth on the coaching staff.

**leachisabeast** · 05-05-2013, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Strange Bru

Everyone forgets his time with the Chargers as OC from 2002-2006 (8-8, 4-12, 12-4, 9-7, 14-2) that gave him the shot at the 2007 Dolphins HC job (1-15) and ultimately the Ravens OC job from 2008-2012 (11-5, 9-7, 12-4, 12-4, 10-6). Those kinds of W-L records will allow a guy to get another shot. We all may have thought that Cam was too conservative with his play calling, but he did a great job (sans 2007) coaching at the NFL level. His first four years as the Ravens OC brought the Ravens to 4 consecutive playoffs, two of those runs took the team to the AFC Championship game, and even though most want to give all of the credit for this years Super Bowl Championship to Jim Caldwell as the OC. The Ravens lost two of the 3 regular season games Caldwell was the OC for. In other words, Jim Caldwell has only won .333 of his regular season games as the Ravens OC, when Cam Cameron won .429 of his regular season games as the Ravens OC.

Cam Cameron is not as bad as we all like to think, much like Shanahan won so much early on that people are willing to give him a pass on his recent years of sucking as a HC.

Oh comon man. Everything about this offense changed when Cam got fired. Reports came out that he was a complete control freak about everything, and while I credit him for at least installing a mistake free system that could help close out games and win most close games, our success had much to do with our stout defense, and all around talent. If anything, Cam held us back from winning more than 12 games, had we had Jim Caldwell as OC in those years, I'm pretty sure our offense would have been more multiple, dangerous, and unpredictable, which would have resulted in more wins, and perhaps more play off success leading to maybe an earlier SB title. We had a more talented team from 2008-2011, and fell short each of those years, yet when Cam goes, we end up going on a roll and winning the SB with a less talented team because the offense was unstoppable. Jim Caldwell was not to blame for those two losses (three games is not a very good sample size), one game was completely out of his hands when he was asked to take the offense over mid week playing a good defense that we ended up destroying in the play offs anyway. The other loss was a meaningless game where we pulled our starters and had no intentions of winning.

**s.r.genovese** · 05-05-2013, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Oh comon man. Everything about this offense changed when Cam got fired. Reports came out that he was a complete control freak about everything, and while I credit him for at least installing a mistake free system that could help close out games and win most close games, our success had much to do with our stout defense, and all around talent. If anything, Cam held us back from winning more than 12 games, had we had Jim Caldwell as OC in those years, I'm pretty sure our offense would have been more multiple, dangerous, and unpredictable, which would have resulted in more wins, and perhaps more play off success leading to maybe an earlier SB title. We had a more talented team from 2008-2011, and fell short each of those years, yet when Cam goes, we end up going on a roll and winning the SB with a less talented team because the offense was unstoppable. Jim Caldwell was not to blame for those two losses (three games is not a very good sample size), one game was completely out of his hands when he was asked to take the offense over mid week playing a good defense that we ended up destroying in the play offs anyway. The other loss was a meaningless game where we pulled our starters and had no intentions of winning.

Remember that the Ravens were one tipped pass/well-played ball from going home empty-handed in Denver.

If that safety plays the ball correctly, the narrative about Caldwell is "Why the hell did he run on every first down? Is he really the best option at Coordinator?"

That's not to discount everything Caldwell did but if the Ravens don't get a little lucky on that one play, the narrative of the Ravens offense and Caldwell is completely different. I definitely think its a stretch to believe that with Caldwell we were guaranteed more than 12 wins the last two years.

**GOTA** · 05-06-2013, 05:33 AM

Didn't the Ravens do this same type of thing a couple of years ago when they hired Al Saunders? How much impact do these advisors actually make?

**leachisabeast** · 05-06-2013, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by s.r.genovese

Remember that the Ravens were one tipped pass/well-played ball from going home empty-handed in Denver.

If that safety plays the ball correctly, the narrative about Caldwell is "Why the hell did he run on every first down? Is he really the best option at Coordinator?"

That's not to discount everything Caldwell did but if the Ravens don't get a little lucky on that one play, the narrative of the Ravens offense and Caldwell is completely different. I definitely think its a stretch to believe that with Caldwell we were guaranteed more than 12 wins the last two years.

I totally disagree.

Lets not forget that the only reason Denver were in the game in the first place were because of two KO returns for touchdowns. Caldwell did more than enough against the number 3 ranked defense. Our offense torched them. Every SB team needs a bit of luck to go all the way, and I always find it amusing when people say things like "oh what if Eli Manning didn't complete that fluke pass to Mario Manningham!". You also totally discount the three other play off games in which our offense was incredible. Again, I think its not even close to being a stretch that we would have won more than 12 games in 2010 and 2011. Some of our losses in 2011 for example were completely inexplicable, with some of the worse play calling I've ever seen in pro football. I'm pretty sure we win games like the Jacksonville game in 2011 had Caldwell been calling the plays.

**HoustonRaven** · 05-06-2013, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by s.r.genovese

Remember that the Ravens were one tipped pass/well-played ball from going home empty-handed in Denver.

If that safety plays the ball correctly, the narrative about Caldwell is "Why the hell did he run on every first down? Is he really the best option at Coordinator?"

That's not to discount everything Caldwell did but if the Ravens don't get a little lucky on that one play, the narrative of the Ravens offense and Caldwell is completely different. I definitely think its a stretch to believe that with Caldwell we were guaranteed more than 12 wins the last two years.

Agreed.

The absence of Cam, while certainly a good thing for the team as a whole, doesn't guarantee anything in terms of wins.

And let's not forget, Caldwell was forced to use Cams play book. There wasn't time to install a new offense.

I'd be willing to bet Caldwell would not have been the OC had that Denver game gone the other way.

**leachisabeast** · 05-06-2013, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Agreed.

The absence of Cam, while certainly a good thing for the team as a whole, doesn't guarantee anything in terms of wins.

And let's not forget, Caldwell was forced to use Cams play book. There wasn't time to install a new offense.

I'd be willing to bet Caldwell would not have been the OC had that Denver game gone the other way.

IMO it guarantees wins in games like Jacksonville in 2011, Pittsburgh at home last year, Seattle in 2011, etc. Those games had inexcusable play calling and offensive production.

**wickedsolo** · 05-06-2013, 08:29 AM

I don't think it guarantees anything, but one thing that I know was a big issue with Cam was his lack of in-game adjustments. He just didn't do it. He had a game plan and that was that. If the D completely stone-walled his game plan, he didn't deviate.

Jim Caldwell at least seems to be able (and willing) to do that. That alone will likely make for a more fluid offensive performance. However, I don't necessarily think that it means more seasonal victories.

The Steelers game against Charlie Batch was more on the D than the offense, IMO. I mean, 37 year old/noodle armed Charlie Batch carved up the D.

I think that game is a prime example of what shaped their draft philosophy in this year's draft. They got younger, faster, and stronger at almost every defensive level.