It is NOT the system!

**camdenyard** · 12-26-2007, 11:15 AM

had HUGE run blocking O-linemen which are NOT suitable for pass blocking, they can pass block, but they'd rather run block

Who asked them what they would "rather do"?

This is what needs to happen now, we need to draft or pick up in free agency, a STARTING left tackle or center because Flynn and J.O. are done and I don't think Chester, Gaither or Terry are our future starters... They are adequate back-ups, but they have proven they can't do the job on a cosistent basis...

What has Gaither proven? Nothing, he has what, a grand total of 2-3 NFL games? JHC, you sound like the dudes who proclaim that Troy Smith can't be successful when he hasn't had a fair shot.

I end this post by saying, this is not rocket science it's just some facts...I am also a Minnesota fan too since childhood, and I saw Billick's offense make the Vikings one of the most prolific offense's in the modern NFL era..He helped make Randy Moss, Robert Smith, Randall Cunningham, Warren Moon, Chris Carter..etc, into the players they became...Billick didn't make them the stars they became, but he used his offense and coaching skills to HELP make them who they were

That team had success because the PLAYERS were OUTSTANDING, period. Funny with your rant about the Ravens O-line you conveniently leave out the fact that the Vikes' O-line was flat-out DOMINANT. Practically any OC could have done what Billick did with those weapons.

I am a Billick siupporter, but please, if the last 9 years have proven anything it is that in any offense it is 90% players that determine success or failure.

**HoustonRaven** · 12-26-2007, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by festivus

Houston Raven and Raven Nurse please take your short term memories somewhere else, please.

What team have you been watching? Because it hasnt been the Ravens. And what does "short term" mean? Because Im thinking about our offense since Billick got here.

When have the Ravens ever finished in the top 16 on offense? Maybe last year they did but I dont think so. I think we finished out the season as the number 18 ranked offense. I am guessing on the number but Im confident I am close.

So on a year by year basis, we finish mid pack and some how that translates into a "good offense"??? All the "offensive genius" can muster is mid-pack offense and thats ok with you all?

Because I dont know about everyone else, but I strive to be at the top of the heap, not mid pack, on everything I do. And demanding the same from my beloved team isnt a bad thing.

**Tspot-D-Ravenator** · 12-26-2007, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by camdenyard

That team had success because the PLAYERS were OUTSTANDING, period. Funny with your rant about the Ravens O-line you conveniently leave out the fact that the Vikes' O-line was flat-out DOMINANT. Practically any OC could have done what Billick did with those weapons.

I am a Billick siupporter, but please, if the last 9 years have proven anything it is that in any offense it is 90% players that determine success or failure.

Dude..That was one of my main issues..Sorry if I didn't add about the Vikes O-line.We don't have the players to perform what needs to be performed...

**RavenScallywag** · 12-26-2007, 11:29 AM

I disagree about Chester, this is his first year with real playing experience, I think he will go on to be a good Center in the NFL. He just needs time like Jason Brown had to work out the kinks.

As for your comments on LT, I might agree, except is there any guys that would likely be there at 6-8 that would be franchise LT like JO was? I don't know much about this draft coming out, but looking at the current mocks, there's Jake Long, who's expected to be gone by pick 5 and may have to be a RT. Ryan Clady and Sam Baker are the best LT there, but are they top 10 guys? The question then is, do we trade down to get one of those two, and pickup an extra pick in the 2nd round to address CB/QB? Or do we just try to wait the LT spot out for a year and let Terry/Gaither get their shot?

**festivus** · 12-26-2007, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

What team have you been watching? Because it hasnt been the Ravens. And what does "short term" mean? Because Im thinking about our offense since Billick got here.

The Ravens. Which post have you been reading? ;)

The 'short term memory' thing was a suggestion that you are forgetting that, for '01, '03, and most of '06 we *did* have an effective offense, in '01 and '06 through the air. This was all the more remarkable in '01 and '03, when we had woeful shortcomings on that side of the ball, but somehow we won anyway.

I don't really care where the offense ranks, as long as the team is winning. I am pretty sure the FO's philosophy is the same, which is why they have made historically such a lopsided investment in the team, though that's changing.

**HoustonRaven** · 12-26-2007, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by festivus

The Ravens. Which post have you been reading? ;)

The 'short term memory' thing was a suggestion that you are forgetting that, for '01, '03, and most of '06 we *did* have an effective offense, in '01 and '06 through the air. This was all the more remarkable in '01 and '03, when we had woeful shortcomings on that side of the ball, but somehow we won anyway.

I don't really care where the offense ranks, as long as the team is winning. I am pretty sure the FO's philosophy is the same, which is why they have made historically such a lopsided investment in the team, though that's changing.

I see your point but isnt your definition of an "effective" offense really an offense that doesnt get in the way of winning?

**festivus** · 12-26-2007, 11:42 AM

No. It's an offense that does its part to contribute to winning.

**purplepoe** · 12-26-2007, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by camdenyard

I am a Billick siupporter, but please, if the last 9 years have proven anything it is that in any offense it is 90% players that determine success or failure.

Ding Ding Ding!

We have a winner.

PP

**AZRAVEN** · 12-26-2007, 02:53 PM

I believe it IS the system from this perspective. I am in total agreement that Billick has never had the correct personnel to implement his system effectively. Where he has failed so miserably IMO is that KNOWING he didn't have the personnel hasn't caused him to put his 10,000 play playbook aside until he does have the proper personnel and instead implementing SOME kind of system that will work with what he has. I realize it would be hard, considering our OL and WR's have sucked for years and we were "blessed" with RB's that didn't want to be here (Priest, Chester and Jamal all left because they were unhappy here) but that is his job and that is what successful head coaches have done over the years. It isn't always possible to have all the pieces needed. So when life gives you lemons make lemonade or lemon pie don't try to make German chocolate or Bavarian tortes.

**4G63** · 12-26-2007, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by AZRAVEN

I believe it IS the system from this perspective. I am in total agreement that Billick has never had the correct personnel to implement his system effectively. Where he has failed so miserably IMO is that KNOWING he didn't have the personnel hasn't caused him to put his 10,000 play playbook aside until he does have the proper personnel and instead implementing SOME kind of system that will work with what he has. I realize it would be hard, considering our OL and WR's have sucked for years and we were "blessed" with RB's that didn't want to be here (Priest, Chester and Jamal all left because they were unhappy here) but that is his job and that is what successful head coaches have done over the years. It isn't always possible to have all the pieces needed. So when life gives you lemons make lemonade or lemon pie don't try to make German chocolate or Bavarian tortes.

Thats what good coaches do!......They make changes to compensate for lack of personnel on the field and use what you have to your advantage. Billick IMO has never done this.....

**highwater** · 12-26-2007, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by AZRAVEN

So when life gives you lemons make lemonade or lemon pie don't try to make German chocolate or Bavarian tortes.

Hmmm . . . I'm trying to figure out if I think that line is brilliant or just out of left field, but I like it.

But I think I agree with the basic premise here, about working your system around what you have as a team. I actually think Billick has done that to some degree, but it could be better. After all, if you have exactly the personnel you want, coaching would be pretty easy.

**festivus** · 12-26-2007, 03:43 PM

In 2003 we had no passing game. So we ran the ball over and over and over and over and over again, all the way into the playoffs, with absolute *crap* for a passing attack. Not only did our scheme 'adapt', just as it had in '01 without Jamal, but the scheme made something where there easily could have been nothing.

The accusation that Billick has made no effort, or an ineffective effort, to adjust is not supported by the history of the team.

:2c: