The Foundation of Development.

**BcRaven** · 05-18-2017, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan

The only option they have is to be a power run team with playaction for burst yardage. They have huge holes on the offensive line to do this, and MM normally runs a west coast offense. We also lack a fullback for power running game, so we will need to run out of 2 TE sets.

Our "playmakers" scream play action deep pass, but our coordinators dont fit that scheme.

So are we going to adapt, or are we going to continue to try to force Wallace and Perriman into running short routes like slants, hitches, etc...knowing they are weak in actual route running.

Hbg, so you're saying that at present the Ravens offense is neither...

nor...

Don't know why I'm hungry all of a sudden... Bc

**wickedsolo** · 05-18-2017, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Marty Mornhinweg has traditionally been a Zone Run WCO OC.

But with play calling highly skewed to the aerial game.

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**leachisabeast** · 05-18-2017, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

But with play calling highly skewed to the aerial game.

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And when I said zone run wco, I meant the Shanahan version that has delivered multiple SBs to teams. It was a great fit for Flacco. Flacco has played his best football behind a good OL and strong run game. This pass happy offense that the fWO think Joe can run by himself is just never gonna work. Joe Flacco is simply not a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, he's not even a Ben Roflsberger.

**leachisabeast** · 05-18-2017, 06:14 AM

Need I remind everyone how bad Russel Wilsons line was this season, and he didn't have a good run game like he's had before. The Seahawks still made the play offs and won a game because they have a dominant defense, and Wilson (who I think is in the same category as Joe when theyre both fully healthy) made the plays that we've seen from Flacco in the past. Hell, Joe started to look like his old self towards the end of the season, but the wheels started to fall off from the defense.

**bt12483** · 05-18-2017, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

And when I said zone run wco, I meant the Shanahan version that has delivered multiple SBs to teams. It was a great fit for Flacco. Flacco has played his best football behind a good OL and strong run game. This pass happy offense that the fWO think Joe can run by himself is just never gonna work. Joe Flacco is simply not a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, he's not even a Ben Roflsberger.

This is a fallacy, because Joe isn't throwing to the guys those other guys are throwing too.

Those guys being gronk, brown, etc.

They inflate QB stats.

I GUARANTEE you, if some of the passes Joe threw last year were going to a guy like brown, his yards per attempt and TDs would have been higher, solely due to Browns individual ability.

Brady has nothing to do with Gronk dragging defenders down the field for YAC. That is all gronk.

When brown is juking people for extra yards, that isn't because of Ben.

But yet the stats of Brady and Ben reap the rewards.

You need quality weapons in a pass happy offense. We have never had weapons that are equivalent to those seen on other teams.

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**leachisabeast** · 05-18-2017, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by bt12483

This is a fallacy, because Joe isn't throwing to the guys those other guys are throwing too.

Those guys being gronk, brown, etc.

They inflate QB stats.

I GUARANTEE you, if some of the passes Joe threw last year were going to a guy like brown, his yards per attempt and TDs would have been higher, solely due to Browns individual ability.

Brady has nothing to do with Gronk dragging defenders down the field for YAC. That is all gronk.

When brown is juking people for extra yards, that isn't because of Ben.

But yet the stats of Brady and Ben reap the rewards.

You need quality weapons in a pass happy offense. We have never had weapons that are equivalent to those seen on other teams.

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Lol Gronk has missed half of his career and Brady has still been a consistently much better QB than Joe, he's just won another SB without him. Why don't you guys just accept the obvious and admit that Joe is not on a level with those guys.

**bt12483** · 05-18-2017, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Lol Gronk has missed half of his career and Brady has still been a consistently much better QB than Joe, he's just won another SB without him. Why don't you guys just accept the obvious and admit that Joe is not on a level with those guys.

I don't care about levels. All I know is flacco has outperformed Brady and Peyton and Ben in the playoffs at least once each. That's enough for me to stake a claim in. Not many QBs can make such a claim.

All I want to know is this:

Would Flacco's stats be better or worse if he threw to Antonio brown? Simple question. Would flacco benefit from Brown?

Imagine the following hypothetical.

Flacco throws 100 identical passes in 100 identical scenarios to Antonio Brown of last year and Mike Wallace of last year.

Would the 100 passes to brown yield more production than the 100 passes to wallace?

In other words, remove the impact of the QB. Would brown outperform Wallace on an individual level?

If yes, then brown would inherently help whatever QB has passed him the ball more than Wallace would.

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**bt12483** · 05-18-2017, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Lol Gronk has missed half of his career and Brady has still been a consistently much better QB than Joe, he's just won another SB without him. Why don't you guys just accept the obvious and admit that Joe is not on a level with those guys.

Brady completed 14, yes FOURTEEN, passes to ONE RB in the SB. Why didn't anyone call him checkdown Charlie???

If flacco had done that he be lambasted for all eternity. Brady does it and its ok.

Did Brady make Edelman skim that low pass off the turf too? Or was that just dumb luck?

Scheme and talent (and luck)!all contribute to a QBs "level".

It's much more than the QB in isolation.

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**leachisabeast** · 05-18-2017, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by bt12483

Brady completed 13 passes to ONE RB in the SB. Why didn't anyone call him checkdown Charlie???

If flacco had done that he be lambasted for all eternity. Brady does it and its ok.

Did Brady make Edelman skim that low pass off the turf too?

Scheme and luck and talent all contribute to a QBs "level".

It's much more than the QB in isolation.

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No question that Brady has more talent to work with and a much better offensive system than Joe does right now. If you're trying to put Joe anywhere near Brady then idk what to tell you.

**bt12483** · 05-18-2017, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

No question that Brady has more talent to work with and a much better offensive system than Joe does right now. If you're trying to put Joe anywhere near Brady then idk what to tell you.

Every QB fails when compared to Brady.

Every team fails when compared to NE as well.

I mean wtf is even the point of advancing an argument to the contrary?

But if flacco isn't "anywhere near" Brady...how do you suppose that he has outperformed Brady in head to head matchups? That kinda seems to be a huge counterpoint to your position, no?

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**leachisabeast** · 05-18-2017, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by bt12483

Every QB fails when compared to Brady.

Every team fails when compared to NE as well.

I mean wtf is even the point of advancing an argument to the contrary?

But if flacco isn't "anywhere near" Brady...how do you suppose that he has outperformed Brady in head to head matchups? That kinda seems to be a huge counterpoint to your position, no?

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Eli Manning had also outplayed Brady, it happens. Both Eli's and Joe's defenses has a big hand in that too. That seems to be a bit of a counter part to those who want elite weapons over an elite defense.

**HbgPARavenfan** · 05-18-2017, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Lol Gronk has missed half of his career and Brady has still been a consistently much better QB than Joe, he's just won another SB without him. Why don't you guys just accept the obvious and admit that Joe is not on a level with those guys.

Joe isnt on Bradys level, as Brady is the GOAT.

I do think he is every bit, if not better than Ben, Ryan and Eli. I think Ben is one of the most over rated players in the history of the league. He has been complete garbage in the superbowl both times, and has continually been bailed out by his elite talent.

Unlike Raven fans, Pitt took years to even utter a bad word about Ben. They blamed his line and coordinator, when it was ben who was holding on to the ball for 4-5 seconds. He has improved under Haley, but Pitt fans and national media still blame his line when I would argue they've been elite based on how long ben and bell have to make decisions.

Either way, TO GET BACK TO THE TOPIC, Joe is one of the only franchise QB's in the NFL who doesnt have a team with a consistent offensive scheme or identity.

If we are going to continue to employe a Headcoach with no real offensive or defensive coaching experience, we should take a page from the steelers and find a competent OC, and keep him here