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Thread: Government Shutdown
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10-01-2013, 11:29 AM #26Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: Government Shutdown
True Democracy's are sheer chaos and history has bore that out.
We need to hold our representatives more accountable.
We have the government we deserve right now. This is what you get when, by and large, the people are apathetic to Government. Switching to a true democracy won't change that.
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10-01-2013, 11:31 AM #28
Re: Government Shutdown
Already there. Last election I voted without voting for any Democrats or Republicans. I plan on doing so for the foreseeable future. As was mentioned on page 1, it's not sufficient to replace people in office. It's about changing the behavior of our elected officials. Until the endless tug-of-war between Democrats and Republicans is interrupted, I have a hard time seeing how things will get better.
Exactly.
I have no affinity for the Democrats. I've never voted for a Democrat for President or a seat in Congress, but even I feel pretty strongly that this shut down is on the Republicans. Sure, maybe the Democrats played dirty pool somewhere along the line, but both sides do that continually. The simple fact is, the Republicans lost the fight over Obamacare, and they're not going to change that.
Regardless of your opinions on Obamacare or the tactics of the Democrats, I don't see how someone can be in favor of holding the country hostage over a losing battle.
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10-01-2013, 11:31 AM #29Veteran Poster
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Re: Government Shutdown
In terms of information about the ACA... the more people find out about it, the more they dislike it. This is shown in the polls and in the fact that almost every promise and claim, from overall costs, to the effects on the deficit, to how many will be left without coverage, to people losing their current coverage, to people losing their spouse's coverage, to people losing their current doctor, to people having their hours reduced, etc., has been shown to be false. And the critics knew they were false at the time and said so.
As for McCain's quote. He ignores the fact that the people voted the Republicans into the House in an unprecedented and historical fashion precisely because of the way Democrats rammed an unpopular ACA through by hook and crook, using bribes, procedural tricks, budget gimmicks, and lies. And of course the House is not some rubber stamp of the White House, no matter how much you or Obama wants it to be so.
And no, 2012 was not a referendum on Obamacare, as much as you wish that to be so as well. It has polled poorly from the beginning, more people do not like it than like it, and this was the case in November 2012.
Real Clear Politics has 243 polls since its passing. 95 percent of them show people opposition to Obamacare. Only 4 percent show support (1 percent show tie). Two-thirds of the polls that show opposition do so by double digits or more. In the past 6 months, more than 75% of the pools show opposition, with the recent CNN poll showing 57 percent against and 38 percent for (19 percent margin is a blowout).
The problem with Obamacare is not just that it is terrible law, it is the manner in which it was passed. It is a massive entitlement program that concerns 15% of our economy, and was passed in a hackish partisan manner with no input from the opposition, and against the will of the people. No other piece of legislation this big was passed on such a party line vote.
And this doesn't even get into the way Democrats are acting now. These continuing resolutions are only required because Democrats haven't been bothered to pass a budget since they have been in power (too politically inconvenient to create a record of their profligate spending). And the ones being proposed by the House are not a repeal of Obamacare they are various forms of delay (to the individual mandate, the exchange funding, etc.). And Obama has already unilaterally and unconstitutionally delayed several aspects of the law for political convenience (employer mandate, the process of proving eligibility, etc.). So asking to delay the whole thing is perfectly reasonable. Perfectly.
Now again, our low information electorate combined with a sycophantic press make the way Democrats are acting tactically sensible, but it does not make it morally or logically justifiable.Last edited by Haloti92; 10-01-2013 at 12:57 PM.
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10-01-2013, 11:49 AM #30Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: Government Shutdown
Feels pretty good being a Libertarian today. :)
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Re: Government Shutdown
Was just furloughed. Report back when told.
Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.
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10-01-2013, 01:02 PM #32Veteran Poster
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10-01-2013, 05:14 PM #33Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: Government Shutdown
Look at it this way.
The market is pretty high up right now. Looks like private enterprise can exists and thrive without the Gubmint after all.
:D
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10-01-2013, 05:37 PM #34Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: Government Shutdown
Just called the BATFE to check the status on my tax stamp on my NFA weapon.
Got a recording that the particular department that handles NFA weapons is shut down.
Dagger.
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10-01-2013, 09:09 PM #35
Re: Government Shutdown
Sorry to those furloughed but . . .
KEEP IT SHUT DOWN!
Start funding it piece by piece. Start with military, courts, essential and Constitutional pieces. Let's see how much we suffer without the Departments of Energy and Education. Or Commerce. Or Agriculture.
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10-02-2013, 08:12 AM #36Regular 1st Stringer
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