The Offense

**RavingMad** · 05-07-2012, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by alien bird

How do you know this? He might be crap, but the guy hasn't even stepped onto the practice field with the Ravens yet. Maybe he didn't play special teams because he wasn't asked to do so in college. That does not mean he cannot play them. This is a bad assumption - even for a 6th round project.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Look at the following list of WRs in the league. Without exception every one of them saw his statistics rise dramatically (catches and yards) within one or two years of starting out. The common thread between them is that each one saw his situation/circumstances change, and took full advantage of that. I'm not saying any WR currently on the Ravens will end up like any of these guys, but maybe if one is given the opportunity he will.

Steve Smith - 10 rec/154 yds to 88 rec/1,110 yds
Sidney Rice - 31 rec/396 yds to 83 rec/1,312 yds
Jordy Nelson- 22 rec/320 yds to 68 rec/1,263 yds
Wes Welker - 29 rec/434 yds to 112 rec/1,175 yds
Victory Cruz - 0 rec (3 games dressed) to 82 rec/1536 yds
Steve Breaston - 8 rec/92 yds to 77 rec/1006 yds

So, I am not at all convinced that the Ravens won't improve the passing attack this fall, and that the players to do it are already under contract. You may be right, but we really don't know that answer; everything is just a guess. The bigger issue seems to be the coaching staff's ability to maximize the strengths of the players they have and their willingness to use them and trust their skills. No one gets any experience without being given the opportunity to contribute.

Bird you are a true optimist, I'll give you that. But there is no one who has seen Streeter actually play, can see this guy running down field to cover punts or kicks. He is one of the least physical receivers you can find. Even Randy Moss was more physical than Streeter. No way this kid is going down field to hit and tackle someone. There is only one thing that points to him being a special teamer and that's the round he was selected in. If you have an admitted receiving need you don't realistically fill that need in the 6th round. Just my humble opinion.

**Haloti92** · 05-07-2012, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by JimZipCode

The last 4 QBs Cameron worked with prior to Flacco went from rookies to the Pro Bowl (Gus Frerotte, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers) or First Team All-American (Antwaan Randle El), under Cameron. His last three offenses in San Diego were top 5 in the league in scoring (#3, #5, #1).

That's "what success". Brees & Rivers made their first Pro Bowls under Cameron, not after he left.

It's also worth remembering that we thought he was awesome in 2008, when we had a rookie QB and a 3-headed RB.

Did you know that the most productive offense in Ravens history (highest points per game) was a tie between 2009 and 2003? In both years we scored 391 points (24.4 per game). Our OC in 2009 was Cam Cameron, in 2003 it was Matt Cavanaugh. Our next two highest-scoring years were 385 points (in 2008) and 378 points (in 2011), both Cameron years. So Cameron has been our offensive coordinator in the highest-scoring season we've ever had (2009), and 3 of our top 4 seasons, and 5 of our top 6.

Code:

Year	Pts	PPG	OC
2009	391	24.4	Cameron
2003	391	24.4	Cavanaugh
2008	385	24.1	Cameron
2011	378	23.6	Cameron
1996	371	23.2	Marchibroda
2010	357	22.3	Cameron
2006	353	22.1	Fassel
2000	333	20.8	Cavanaugh
1997	326	20.4	Marchibroda
1999	324	20.3	Cavanaugh
2004	317	19.8	Cavanaugh
2002	316	19.8	Cavanaugh
2001	303	18.9	Cavanaugh
2007	275	17.2	Billick
1998	269	16.8	Marchibroda
2005	265	16.6	Fassel

We're in the middle of the best offensive era in Ravens history. But because we don't know what good offense looks like, we don't believe it.

As for his San Diego offense, it was certainly great overall, but the running game and LT were most of the reason. The passing game was always average, check the rankings.

And as for your Ravens' data, it is very misleading because it doesn't include the fact that league scoring has gone up over time. Marchibroda's (1996) 23.2 per game ranked 6th in points and 3rd in yards, whereas Cameron's (2009) 24.4 ranked 9th in points and 13th in yards. And as for points, I am fairly certain they include defensive/ST TDs, which I believe was 1 in 1996 to 4 in 2009, or 1.3 extra pts per game for 2009 that had nothing to do with the offense. 1996's team ranks 4th in scoring if they get the extra 3 D/ST TDs.

That said, our offense is definitely a bit better than it has been since we had Vinny (and no defense). But it is still average, especially the passing game which is even more important now than a decade ago.

**TurtlesNBirds** · 05-07-2012, 08:19 PM

I don't understand why Torrey is even being listed as an issue with the offense. As a rookie, he led the team in receiving TD's, more than doubling Boldin's total output. He didn't even start until Week 3, had no drops the last 5-6 games in the season, and had a huge TD against the Pat's in the AFC Championship. He's exactly what the offense needs, a guy with game-breaking ability. If anything, we need another dynamic WR.

**Carey** · 05-07-2012, 08:35 PM

I cant help but to go back to the AFCC game...it wasnt so much the stats, i also factor in it being vs a bad defense. I took away a couple things from that game.

Joe played about as cerebral as i've seen him play, he played fundamental sound and made sound decisions all game

Cam called a balanced game but also a much less predictable one

I think if those two things bring themselves into 2012 along with what input and stress on fundamentals Jim Caldwell will bring, improvements of Smith, Doss, Pitta and Dickson, and a entire true offseason im carefully optimistic this offense will take another step in the right direction.

Most of it i think falls on Joe's shoulder's this year, I have an optimistic feeling he takes the next step

**steelerhater** · 05-07-2012, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by RavingMad

Great points guys. My intentions was to keep this about the receivers. Flacco like EX said has room for growth but I will give him the benefit of the doubt and put this more on the personnel around him.

No one, minus ignorance or bias can ignore the success Cam had as an OC with San Diego. His detractors point to the personnel for San Diego's success. So deduction tells me the scheme can be very successful with the right personnel. Especially since variations of that scheme are still successful today.

From reading some your responses I'm more optimistic about the emergence of Pitta and Dickinson working underneath. I still have serious questions and doubts about Doss.

How'd they do in the playoffs?

**steelerhater** · 05-07-2012, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

I knew this would turn into another cam bashing thread.

How about the Oline; they have to hold the protection to allow patterns to develop or its more dump offs and quick slants/outs

Absolutely a concern. Then again, when you're having trouble holding blocks on the offensive line and all your receivers are running deep routes, who is ultimately to blame?

**RavingMad** · 05-07-2012, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by steelerhater

How'd they do in the playoffs?

Marty Schottenheimer played a big part in that. Hence the term...Marty ball.

**landspeed** · 05-07-2012, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by RavingMad

Marty Schottenheimer played a big part in that. Hence the term...Marty ball.

No. Seriously, wherever cam cameron goes, his offense is average at best.

Drew Brees didnt become elite until he left Cam. Philip Rivers wasnt elite until Cam left. He sucked as a head coach and has nothing but a predictable playbook.

**RavingMad** · 05-07-2012, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Carey

I cant help but to go back to the AFCC game...it wasnt so much the stats, i also factor in it being vs a bad defense. I took away a couple things from that game.

Joe played about as cerebral as i've seen him play, he played fundamental sound and made sound decisions all game

Cam called a balanced game but also a much less predictable one

I think if those two things bring themselves into 2012 along with what input and stress on fundamentals Jim Caldwell will bring, improvements of Smith, Doss, Pitta and Dickson, and a entire true offseason im carefully optimistic this offense will take another step in the right direction.

Most of it i think falls on Joe's shoulder's this year, I have an optimistic feeling he takes the next step

Many of us go to that game and see that game as the indicator of what's to come. But keep in mind of the performance just a week earlier. Which is the rule. Which is the exception.

**Paintballguy** · 05-07-2012, 09:19 PM

I'm very optimistic about the offense this year. I think Joe will come out of the gate firing. He played very well during the postseason, and I think that will continue this season. Torrey and Boldin with be healthy, and Torrey is going into his second year with a full offseason. I think the chemistry between Joe and Torrey is only going to get better.

**RavingMad** · 05-07-2012, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

No. Seriously, wherever cam cameron goes, his offense is average at best.

Drew Brees didnt become elite until he left Cam. Philip Rivers wasnt elite until Cam left. He sucked as a head coach and has nothing but a predictable playbook.

Well, what do you call average. 2004 #3 OFFENSE in the NFL, 2005 #5 OFFENSE in the NFL, 2006 #1 OFFENSE in the NFL.

**seraph** · 05-07-2012, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

No. Seriously, wherever cam cameron goes, his offense is average at best.

Drew Brees didnt become elite until he left Cam. Philip Rivers wasnt elite until Cam left. He sucked as a head coach and has nothing but a predictable playbook.

They became elite because they hit their prime as quarterbacks. Not to mention the Chargers offensive line was average at best when Cam was there.