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  1. #61
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    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Played great? Really? I can maybe buy the "better than average" argument, but great??? Not even close.

    Personally, I'd wait another year before I even firmly stamp him with the better than average label. Some stupid team with a braindead front office like WAS, JAX, TB, or DAL will give him $9 million/year in this upcoming and wind up cutting him in a year or two when they realize he is a $5 million/year player after all. There is no rationale in assigning Cary Williams 1/13th of your total team cap space. 1/25th, yes, but not 1/13th.
    Coming from the practice squad 7th round pick denied a shot the previous season before? His play was great you couldn't ask for much more from the bottom of the talent pool, he played better than some of the top corners in the league last season, people argue about INTs well how many of those do champ bailey get a year? Or even Nmandi? They sure don't average double digits INTs, Carey is always in a good position to defend the ball he just hasn't figured out how to snatch it he could have easly had 5-6picks last season, but you can't deny his ability to play the ball.





  2. #62
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    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    Coming from the practice squad 7th round pick denied a shot the previous season before? His play was great you couldn't ask for much more from the bottom of the talent pool, he played better than some of the top corners in the league last season, people argue about INTs well how many of those do champ bailey get a year? Or even Nmandi? They sure don't average double digits INTs, Carey is always in a good position to defend the ball he just hasn't figured out how to snatch it he could have easly had 5-6picks last season, but you can't deny his ability to play the ball.
    My caution with this is Fabian Washington. In 2008, he looked really good. Fabian literally dropped atleast 8 picks that year. Everybody, thought if he learned to catch he could be huge. He got hurt and wasn't very good after that.





  3. #63

    Re: Williams turns down contract

    I believe he gets a starting corner contract this offseason, his move is understandable, though a bit on the risky side. I don't see many ways he stays healthy and gets a smaller offer this offseason. So he is basically betting he will remain at least mostly healthy.





  4. #64
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    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    You're ignoring the clear fact that he will never see all of that 30-35 million he gets from another franchise. Again, just because he gets $40 million, doesn't mean that he will see anywhere near that. Nobody is going to pay a 32 year old CB with very limited ball skills $9 million/year. That's what Williams is facing at the back end of his next contract, assuming he ever gets offered it.

    You always seem to overstate the amount that people are due to get in free agency. You stated that Marshall Yanda took a way below market value deal to stay with the Ravens last offseason. In reality, he took more guaranteed money and with more reasonable salary intervals, increased the odds that he sees all of the money offered him in that contract.

    Cary Williams might, if everything bounces his way, get a contract in free agency that guarantees him $16-$20 million. The contract he turned down with the Ravens wasn't a whole lot less than that in terms of guaranteed money. The risk of POTENTIALLY getting a few more guaranteed dollars at the end of the year is not worth the gamble of ASSUREDLY getting a little less just by signing on a dotted line. A line that was made available to him. There is no guarantee that any NFL team will ever offer him that opportunity again. It's a horrendous gamble in a sport where a player can go from starter on a Top 4 team to out of the league in one season.

    For Cary's sake, let's hope that the Ravens find some form of pass rush, because in the games last year where Suggs wasn't in full fledged beast mode in terms of harrassing QBs, Cary looked pretty darn mediocre.
    That also doesn't mean that he will see all of the money that Baltimore offered.
    "Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore





  5. #65
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    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Are people here actually knocking him for turning down that contract?
    I'm not knocking him for declining that contract, but he has to back it up on the field if he wants more money than that.





  6. #66
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    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn
    Are people here actually knocking him for turning down that contract?

    reply : He's had ZERO interceptions in his career. He is good, but not yet a prime CB (like Webb). Why should the Ravens overpay? ... Bc





  7. #67
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    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn
    Are people here actually knocking him for turning down that contract?

    reply : He's had ZERO interceptions in his career. He is good, but not yet a prime CB (like Webb). Why should the Ravens overpay? ... Bc
    They shouldn't overpay, but A.) That doesn't mean that Cary Williams should accept their offer and B.) That doesn't mean that somebody else won't have an inflated idea of how valuable Cary Williams is and we've seen this with plenty of Raven defenders in the past.
    "Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore





  8. #68
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    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Cary is a Ravens starting CB and possibly (most likely)going onto freeagency. Someone will bite just because of the pedigree of being a Raven and not just the player he is. He's young, tall, and is coachable (7th rounder to starter). See our past instances of other defensive players, hell, even look at out D coordinators who get a leg up from being here. We are the IVY league of the NFL when it comes to poaching talent on the field and off and because of that, a decent year will net him an above average contract compared to his actual abilities.
    Last edited by Stealthbirds80; 08-21-2012 at 02:57 PM.





  9. #69

    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    That also doesn't mean that he will see all of the money that Baltimore offered.
    Yes, I covered that in my comments. I would imagine the first two years at roughly $9-$10 million was guaranteed. Even if he got a 5 year/ $35-$40 million contract elsewhere (certainly the high end of what he would get), the most that would be guaranteed would likely be the first two years at $14-$18 million. If you look at $15 million next to $35 million, you could make an argument that he should have turned it down. However, if you look at the guaranteed money $10 million to $16 million isn't that much more. This is a classic one in hand equals two in the bush type of equation.

    If Cary Williams replicates his 2011 performance, I would expect him to get 4 years-$30 million, with about $15 million guaranteed. If he plays worse, I would expect a contract similar to what he turned down, perhaps worse. If he gets hurt, he might get a veterans minimum type contract. He's certainly gambling on himself in terms of having a great year. If he doesn't he's losing money.





  10. #70
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    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Yes, I covered that in my comments. I would imagine the first two years at roughly $9-$10 million was guaranteed. Even if he got a 5 year/ $35-$40 million contract elsewhere (certainly the high end of what he would get), the most that would be guaranteed would likely be the first two years at $14-$18 million. If you look at $15 million next to $35 million, you could make an argument that he should have turned it down. However, if you look at the guaranteed money $10 million to $16 million isn't that much more. This is a classic one in hand equals two in the bush type of equation.

    If Cary Williams replicates his 2011 performance, I would expect him to get 4 years-$30 million, with about $15 million guaranteed. If he plays worse, I would expect a contract similar to what he turned down, perhaps worse. If he gets hurt, he might get a veterans minimum type contract. He's certainly gambling on himself in terms of having a great year. If he doesn't he's losing money.
    You're saying that six million dollars isn't a big difference? You are guessing what the Ravens offered in guaranteed money, as if, even if he gets hurt, he'll get more from what they offered than on the FA market.
    "Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore





  11. #71

    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    You're ignoring the clear fact that he will never see all of that 30-35 million he gets from another franchise. Again, just because he gets $40 million, doesn't mean that he will see anywhere near that. Nobody is going to pay a 32 year old CB with very limited ball skills $9 million/year. That's what Williams is facing at the back end of his next contract, assuming he ever gets offered it.

    You always seem to overstate the amount that people are due to get in free agency. You stated that Marshall Yanda took a way below market value deal to stay with the Ravens last offseason. In reality, he took more guaranteed money and with more reasonable salary intervals, increased the odds that he sees all of the money offered him in that contract.

    Cary Williams might, if everything bounces his way, get a contract in free agency that guarantees him $16-$20 million. The contract he turned down with the Ravens wasn't a whole lot less than that in terms of guaranteed money. The risk of POTENTIALLY getting a few more guaranteed dollars at the end of the year is not worth the gamble of ASSUREDLY getting a little less just by signing on a dotted line. A line that was made available to him. There is no guarantee that any NFL team will ever offer him that opportunity again. It's a horrendous gamble in a sport where a player can go from starter on a Top 4 team to out of the league in one season.

    For Cary's sake, let's hope that the Ravens find some form of pass rush, because in the games last year where Suggs wasn't in full fledged beast mode in terms of harrassing QBs, Cary looked pretty darn mediocre.
    1. Yanda did take a less than market deal. It isn't even close to what top guards get regardless of structure. Not even in tje ballpark.

    2. Go read my Webb article I posted in March, and tell me how much I over estimated that one. I hit the overall money and guarantees dead on the money.

    3.On a $15 million total deal offer, the MOST they probably guaranteed was 8 million. If you think there isn't a difference betwen 8 million and $15-20 million I dont know what to tell you.

    4.Offering a starting caliber corner 3 years is a joke, the most obvious flaw in the offer. The average is close, he is probably a $6 mill a year player.

    5. I have never and will never say he will get a top corner deal like Carr got. He won't, because he isn't that good. BUT there is a massive gap between $15 million and 50 million that Cary will fit into.

    I would have preferred the Ravens did what Pitt did with Antonio Brown. Give him the possibility of earning decent money, ONLY if he performs.year in and year out. Brown got very little guaranteed but the potential to turn it into a nice contract over the long term. Williams had no such option.

    Bottom line is 3/15 offer is a joke, and I am far from the only one saying that. I don't give a damn what the structure looked like.

    Starting corners, however average they might be are getting paid in todays league, period. A hell of a lot more than 15 million.





  12. #72
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    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Yanda turned down more from Washington to stay in Baltimore and you know that Snyder ponies up.
    "Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore





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