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Thread: George Zimmerman Trial
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07-01-2013, 10:49 AM #37Veteran Poster
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
The reason we can surmise Trayvon confronted Zimmerman is because otherwise he had plenty of time to get to his supposed destination. Plenty of time.
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
Not testimony. Time stamped calls to 911 and cell phone records show there was little to no time. Besides, you think Zimmerman is guilty simply because Martin wasn't big enough to be considered a deadly weapon, but he's big enough to get out of being mounted while on his stomach reverse positions and get the better of Zimerman?
NO, I'm asking if you think simply because someone is charged nothing they say is credible or true.
It's conjecture because you're drawing a conclusion based of guess work, pretty uch the definition of conjecture. The way you stated it it's as if Zimmerman followed the whole time and then confronted Martin. a) we have no evidence of that b) see my earlier post about the 911 operator asking Zimmerman if he was following ans asking him to not do that
I didn't hear all of her's I was at work. But I have to ask, why you think he's guilty if there is no proof of who started the fight?
Again, I didn't hear all of her's or his for that matter. But his is more credible to me cause he came out and yelled at them while they were feet away from him.
Thank god you're not on the jury. He was a neighborhood watch captain, that was asked to be the captain. He said "he looks black" only after being asked. HE didn't call saying he there's this suspicious looking black guy wondering around.
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
He was unarmed and 40lbs lighter. To my recollection theres not too many states that will declare that a deadly weapon unless trained in combat sports (which i found all the mma talk interesting for that reason).
NO, I'm asking if you think simply because someone is charged nothing they say is credible or true.
It's conjecture because you're drawing a conclusion based of guess work, pretty uch the definition of conjecture. The way you stated it it's as if Zimmerman followed the whole time and then confronted Martin. a) we have no evidence of that b) see my earlier post about the 911 operator asking Zimmerman if he was following ans asking him to not do that
I didn't hear all of her's I was at work. But I have to ask, why you think he's guilty if there is no proof of who started the fight?
Again, I didn't hear all of her's or his for that matter. But his is more credible to me cause he came out and yelled at them while they were feet away from him.
Thank god you're not on the jury. He was a neighborhood watch captain, that was asked to be the captain. He said "he looks black" only after being asked. HE didn't call saying he there's this suspicious looking black guy wondering around.Last edited by JAB1985; 07-01-2013 at 07:32 PM.
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07-01-2013, 08:27 PM #40Veteran Poster
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
The only thing that matters in this case at all, assuming the relevant law actually matters (and not some nebulous sense of social 'justice' that allows one to ignore the law when one feels the need), is whether it is reasonable to believe that Zimmerman could have been in fear of death or 'great bodily harm' and was unable to escape that fear without using his gun. That is the only relevant issue.
To that point, his injuries, body positioning (whether or not mounted), and any threats from Trayvon ('you're going to die', etc) are all that matters. The latter can never be proven or disproven. The former speak for themselves. And body positioning is being debated/disputed by different witnesses.
'Profiling' doesn't matter. Whether Zimmerman was following Trayvon doesn't matter. And according to the law, whether Zimmerman or Trayvon threw the first punch doesn't even matter. And as for that last issue, the evidence and timeline absolutely indicate Trayvon stayed around for a confrontation versus simply entering his destination (as he had more than ample time to do).Last edited by Haloti92; 07-01-2013 at 08:35 PM.
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
Unarmed and 40lbs lighter but big enough to get out of a mounted position and turn the tables?
I’ve heard this story several times, many before he was even charged. As did the lead investigator who pretty much said today other than some minor inconsistencies he seemed truthful.
Guess work saying “he continued to follow him” His truck was close to where the fight took place, he said he was walking back to it after looking for an address and by all accounts that seems at least plausible..
I noticed today from investigator Serino that Martin’s house where Rachel Jentiel said he was at when the hung up the phone or it hung up, is at the other end of the row of townhouses from where the fight took place. So either Martin lied, misspoke, didn’t know where he was or he could have seen Zimerman walking back to his truck after looking for an address and confronted him. Of the 4 the first 3 seem the least likely.
I said I didn’t hear all of it. I did hear her say the man on the top got up walked around and was holding his head and his side. So if that was before the shot that means Martin laid there while Zimmerman walked around after getting beat up got up and than got shot by Zimmerman.
I’m not being condescending. You said he called the police 50 times and “that tells you all you need to know about Zimmerman” thus… he has to be guilty.
By the way just what is it you think he is guilty of?
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07-01-2013, 09:24 PM #43Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
I've been wondering since when is following someone a bad thing?
Are people hired to be neighborhood watchmen supposed to be stationary and non observant?
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
THIS:
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The state is unlikely to prevail in arguing Zimmerman was the aggressor because to be the aggressor, Zimmerman had to contemporaneously provoke the force Martin used against him. Zimmerman’s profiling of Martin and call to the non-emergency number were not contemporaneous with Martin’s attack. Even if the state could convince a judge or jury that Zimmerman was following Martin, rather than walking back to his car, rendering his pursuit a contemporaneous act, it is not an act that provokes Martin’s use of force against him. Demanding someone account for their presence does not provoke the use of force. Even if it could be construed to be provocation for using force, all it means is Zimmerman had to attempt reasonable means to extricate himself before using deadly force in response. W-6′s steadfast insistence that Zimmerman was struggling to get up and out from under Trayvon, right before the shot went off, fulfills that requirement. Zimmerman will say the same. And no witnesses saw anything different.
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http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/burtli...erman-is-weak/
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
Okay what am I missing here? It seems to be pretty clear she is talking about after the shot.
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
observe and report.
getting out of the truck and CHASING is what was wrong or at the very least questionable. Im curious what he was going to do if he caught him or Martin stopped running? Assuming the guy was bad because hes walking in the rain with his hoodie up is idiotic, but not against the law. Ive done that vary thing many times and can tell you i was guilty of nothing. in zimmermans eyes that means youre up to no good. So thats fine for him to call the police and keep an eye on where he went, following in his car and staying on the phone. absolutely fine. you can start to see how that would freak somebody out though, which apparently Martin was to some degree to run away, but still no crime. getting out and running after him is where it gets blurry on the line he crossed. you could easily call that action stalking and/or harassment because he has nothing to go off of to say hes suspicious other than walking in the rain. After that, I think whoever started the first physical action is important. for all we know Martin feared for his life based off those actions and/or whatever followed. how does that work? both feared for their lives so both are innocent of any wrong doing regardless of outcome? knowing we dont know what happened to start it, If it was Martin that killed Zimmerman in that exchange is he getting off as well?
Nobody has evidence to support that first interaction between the two. Thats why hes going to get off, which i said from the beginning. Everything up to that point can point you in one direction or another but ultimately, not unlike AirFlacco said, its meaningless to the actual confrontation which we only know Zimmermans side. its your prerogative. For me, I think Trayvon running away to begin with meant he tried to get away from him and I think Zimmermans history and own words points to him wanting to stop him from getting away. If Zimmerman kept following him and confronted him but Martin still acted first, i dont think hes guilty of anything. I just feel something else had to happen to provoke that between running away and punching Zimmerman.Last edited by JAB1985; 07-02-2013 at 08:34 AM.
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07-02-2013, 09:35 AM #47Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
Chasing? Where is it in the evidence presented thus far that he was chasing Martin?
That's your assumption of his motivation.
Now he's running? Ok, where in the evidence is he now running?
For someone who earlier claimed to be basing their opinion on the facts in the case, you're certainly doing a TON of assuming here.
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07-02-2013, 09:37 AM #48Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
We have a neighborhood watch in our neighborhood -- well, it's actually a dude in his 70's who drives around in a golf cart -- and I've been followed numerous times.
Can't say I ever felt threatened by it. In fact, I was glad to see him. Most of the time it's when my wife and I walk home from our neighborhood watering hole and it's late.
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