OT/ Same old Angelos

**festivus** · 01-31-2008, 04:36 PM

I don't claim to be an O's guy, but:

Ben McDonald
Scott Erickson
Jamie Moyer

Erickson if I remember correctly we gave a big extension to right before his arm disintegrated. Not sure.

Greg?

**Rochardrik** · 01-31-2008, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Ken Rosenthal was just on OTL on ESPN.

His was talking about the Bedard trade and added that he thinks Roberts will be gone as well. He then made an odd comment, IMO ....

He said all this gutting will make the Orioles BETTER then when they had Miggy, Bedard and Roberts all on the same team.

Am I the only person that thinks he is nuts???

This is NOT nuts.. WE had Roberts, Miggy and Bedard.... and who else? Jay waste Gibbons as a clean-up hitter? Huff ? Atrocious middle relief. Mora's best seasons were 3 years ago...Daniel Cabrera? Need I go on?

**Greg** · 01-31-2008, 05:55 PM

Ben McDonald
Scott Erickson
Jamie Moyer

Erickson did indeed meltdown with injuries about halfway through his extension. Ben McDonald was an adequate at best starter for a few years after leaving here, we failed to develop him. Moyer wasn't groomed here, he was established before arriving. We shouldn't have let Moyer get away, however, he started to blossom toward the end of his time here and was very good for Seattle for years after.

**HoustonRaven** · 01-31-2008, 06:13 PM

Greg is indeed a wealth of O's knowledge ...

I forgot about Scotty E. That's one dark dude. He used to hang out in Canton a lot and if the dude had one peice of clothing that wasnt black, I'd be shocked.

He loved his vodka, too!

**highwater** · 01-31-2008, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Lets count the number of talented pitchers we groom and then let walk out the door ....

Curt Shilling
Mike Mussina
David Wells
Kevin Brown

While I don't disagree with the general mood of this thread, I have to say these examples don't advance the argument -- we didn't "groom" David Wells or Kevin Brown, who came here as free agents from other teams. I'll agree about Mussina, which was a classic Angelos screwup, and I semi-agree about Schilling, although he came from the Red Sox, not from our farm system.

Syd Twit's midseason trades from a few years back bugged me the most -- we got NOTHING from the B.J. Surhoff trade. Nothing but stiffs that never amounted to anything.

**HoustonRaven** · 01-31-2008, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by highwater

While I don't disagree with the general mood of this thread, I have to say these examples don't advance the argument -- we didn't "groom" David Wells or Kevin Brown, who came here as free agents from other teams. I'll agree about Mussina, which was a classic Angelos screwup, and I semi-agree about Schilling, although he came from the Red Sox, not from our farm system.

Syd Twit's midseason trades from a few years back bugged me the most -- we got NOTHING from the B.J. Surhoff trade. Nothing but stiffs that never amounted to anything.

I guess groom was the bad word to use ... more so reflecting on the talent we had at pitching and *poof* its gone.

**purplepoe** · 01-31-2008, 06:46 PM

How about John Maine.

He's up in NY pitching well and was a freakin throw in in the the Julio/Benson deal.

As Greg stated above, many SPs listed on this thread were FA pickups that went on to greener pastures. We now have a stud lefty who wants out and a suitor in Seattle who is willing to give up some good talent for him. Remember, we're gonna get what will be on parfor Bedard what the Twins got for Santana who is the best pitcher in baseball. I've heard some people compare Bedard and Santana. What a joke. Bedard has never thrown 200 innings in a year. Does he have nasty stuff? Absolutely. But remember, it's not like he's a 24 or 25 year old guy. He'll be 29 in a month. Take a look at Santana's past 4 seasons. It's mind boggling in this day of the HR.

Bedard and Roberts need to be dealt. We are losing 90-100 games with or without them and they are both gonna bolt after the 09 season.

This whole talk about extending Bedard is just that. Talk.

Angelos hates giving SPs long deals (see Erickson) and Bedard isn't signing one here unless that offer is so outlandish that he'd be foolish not to sign. Im talking 5 years at 100 million plus. And that certainly isn't happening.

This team is gonna stink for the next 2-3 years with or without these 2 guys. We need to get value now for them and McPhail knows it. Hell, everyone does.

The hole has been dug. And dug some more. And dug some more.

It's gonna take many years and many solid moves to get out of it.

PP

**highwater** · 01-31-2008, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by purplepoe

I've heard some people compare Bedard and Santana. What a joke.

I don't know who those people are, but if they aren't close friends or relatives of Bedard, then they're a little crazy. Bedard's good but he's not in Santana's league -- has Bedard even won 15 games in a season?

And maybe this shoudn't matter, but Bedard appears to be a prick. Maybe he's not, maybe his teammates like him, but he comes across as a thouroughly unlikeable guy.

If they can pick up some quality young talent for him, I wish they would pull the trigger and make a deal. I don't even care if they suck next year, at least we would have some reason to have hope for the future.

**purplepoe** · 01-31-2008, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by highwater

I don't know who those people are, but if they aren't close friends or relatives of Bedard, then they're a little crazy. Bedard's good but he's not in Santana's league -- has Bedard even won 15 games in a season?

And maybe this shoudn't matter, but Bedard appears to be a prick. Maybe he's not, maybe his teammates like him, but he comes across as a thouroughly unlikeable guy.

If they can pick up some quality young talent for him, I wish they would pull the trigger and make a deal. I don't even care if they suck next year, at least we would have some reason to have hope for the future.

I heard it on the radio today. The comparisons that is.

Nobody is in Santana's league.

And yes, Bedard is a prick. Pretty much every reporter acknowledges it.

Now, he might just be introverted and not like dealing with the media. But whatever it is, it comes off badly.

Not winning doesn't help. There are a lot of surly guys in that locker room.

You don't have to worry about them sucking next year. They are gonna be very bad no matter what moves they make.

They will be looking up at TB in the standings at the end of the year.

And if they do indeed move Bedard and Roberts, I'd say 100+ losses isn't out of the question.

PP