Is having a great LT overrated?

**Paintballguy** · 04-22-2013, 09:57 PM

Everyone forgets the game that clinched the AFC North and kicked off the SB run was against the Giants with Oher at LT. Flacco had a perfect game. It was also Caldwell's first real game to gameplan for if you exclude the Broncos game where Caldwell was thrown in as OC at the last minute.

I think more of it is in the coaching, scheming and play calling. We saw a lot of different play calling in the Giants game and during the playoff run. Flacco was really moving around in the pocket. With Cameron, we all know the play calling was predictable and he liked to call the same 7 step drops and leave Flacco in the same spot. Caldwell immediately started moving the pocket around which helps negate some of the pass rush. It's harder to rush the passer if you don't know exactly where he'll be.

**wickedsolo** · 04-22-2013, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

Everyone forgets the game that clinched the AFC North and kicked off the SB run was against the Giants with Oher at LT. Flacco had a perfect game. It was also Caldwell's first real game to gameplan for if you exclude the Broncos game where Caldwell was thrown in as OC at the last minute.

I think more of it is in the coaching, scheming and play calling. We saw a lot of different play calling in the Giants game and during the playoff run. Flacco was really moving around in the pocket. With Cameron, we all know the play calling was predictable and he liked to call the same 7 step drops and leave Flacco in the same spot. Caldwell immediately started moving the pocket around which helps negate some of the pass rush. It's harder to rush the passer if you don't know exactly where he'll be.

+1

Pretty much sums up how I feel. I dont get what other folks don't understand about this perspective.

No one is saying McKinnie isnt a good player and no one is saying he didnt play a vital role in the playoffs and SB. In the same breath, this perspective has nothing to do with Oher at all.

Simply stated: Jim Caldwell's game planning and play calling were the ultimate catalyst for this offense finally clicking. And that is why I (and others) feel that this offense and team can still be successful with Oher or KO at left tackle next year. If they end up brining McKinnie back for one more year, that works too. Ultimately, Caldwell is driving this offense and will play to the strengths of the individual and the team.

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**Bigfish** · 04-22-2013, 10:44 PM

These threads go places. Is having a great LT overrated? It's like money, when you don't have any it's really important. Given a choice between a good LT or not is a no brainer. The other half of the equation is does the other team have someone who can exploit having a weak LT? So it matters more when he's getting burned. To ignore the position to the point that you can put any stiff in there is foolish. The question that should be asked is do we have a good LT?

**wickedsolo** · 04-22-2013, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Bigfish

These threads go places. Is having a great LT overrated? It's like money, when you don't have any it's really important. Given a choice between a good LT or not is a no brainer. The other half of the equation is does the other team have someone who can exploit having a weak LT? So it matters more when he's getting burned. To ignore the position to the point that you can put any stiff in there is foolish. The question that should be asked is do we have a good LT?

See, you're taking to a complete extreme.

By your post I can only assume that your interpreting a lot of the posts in this thread to mean that the Ravens could plug Oneill Cousins in at LT and everything would be dandy. I dont think anyone in their right mind is saying that or anything close.

Teams like the Packers, Saints, Steelers, Giants, and now the Ravens have proven that you do not need an elite LT to be successful.

I am sure if Eric Fisher were to fall into the Raven's laps they would draft the kid. However, with Caldwell as the OC and with Juan Castillo helping out, I think the offense would still be productive and successful without an elite LT.

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**houstonravensfan** · 04-22-2013, 11:21 PM

I don't know whether you MUST have a top-10 LT to succeed. Or even a top-20.

But, though no expert, I do know you must have an LT. And we don't. We do not have anyone who has proven he can be a consistently above-average LT.

Oher has proven he can NOT consistently produce above-average performances at LT. KO has proven he is a top-quality G, but has proven nothing at all as an LT. And we have no one else signed remotely capable of playing LT .

Solution? I'll leave it to the many more intelligent than me. IMHO, we should sign McKinnie and draft a developmental LT in round 2 or 3, OR two LT prospects in later rounds.

When asking how good an LT we need, remember how much Flacco means to the team.

PS: I'd like to see KO surprise me and become an above-average LT, but remember who we have to step into LG. Yah Reid? Ramon Harewood?

**Bigfish** · 04-23-2013, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

See, you're taking to a complete extreme.

By your post I can only assume that your interpreting a lot of the posts in this thread to mean that the Ravens could plug Oneill Cousins in at LT and everything would be dandy. I dont think anyone in their right mind is saying that or anything close.

Teams like the Packers, Saints, Steelers, Giants, and now the Ravens have proven that you do not need an elite LT to be successful.

I am sure if Eric Fisher were to fall into the Raven's laps they would draft the kid. However, with Caldwell as the OC and with Juan Castillo helping out, I think the offense would still be productive and successful without an elite LT.

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Fair enough, but Oniel Cousins is extreme too. While an elite LT is not probable, I'll take competent and that should be sufficient. Every player can't be all pro. We'll probably never see another JO, he was a freak. It's been argued Oher is a viable option but I've got the Polomalu's strip sack burned in my memory.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...-forces-fumble

I have no idea what he could have been thinking but that one play lost the game. Has he elevated his play since then? Not much if at all.

We'll see what happens, but I suspect we'll make a play for a LT as there are some options out there. After the draft, maybe a few more.

PS: I'd like to see KO surprise me and become an above-average LT, but remember who we have to step into LG. Yah Reid? Ramon Harewood?

If KO can play solid at left tackle his value would be elevated. I'm not sure he can but it's easier to find a quality guard than a LT. Gino would be helped by being flanked by Yanda and KO at guards.

**AirFlacco** · 04-23-2013, 12:20 AM

The last SB champs, NY GIANTS, just signed their LT, Will Beatty to a $38M contract. He's not a pro bowler or franchise LT but is very athletic and a solid pass protector protecting Eli's blind side.

So the bottom line is, the last 3 of 4 LTs in the last 2 SB have been pro bowlers from 07-12 (Light, MacKinnie and Staley) and the one who isn't (Beatty) is very athletic and very, very good at protecting the blind side. Shows how important strong LTs are.

And don't forget Denver, another 2012 playoff team with a pro bowler LT in Ryan Clady. He played vs us but didn't give up any sacks while losing. He's a 3 time pro bowler and has started in 80 straight games although he missed this years pro bowl game due to an injury.

That's 3 2012 playoff teams with pro bowl LTs protecting the blind side.

Someone is mixing apples with oranges.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giant...BAyWXVxdHGjeoJ

**AirFlacco** · 04-23-2013, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

See, you're taking to a complete extreme.

This is what you do; arguing that someone takes it to extremes when you don't like what he says. I can pull up your posts where you argued with film study's grades. You posted that thread the day after we lost the opener in Philly and the day after Oher almost got Joe killed. I didn't call you any names and would have been whacked if I did and I don't send any nasty PMs because I'd get nuked for that too. As I said in your PM, I didn't even know it was your thread. I was just disagreeing like I am now. You were pissed after I called that thread up after Film Study blasted the o-line with poor grades.

It was no coincidence we started winning when McKinnie was inserted and KO and Oher
were moved over.

And of course the play calling is important. It's everything. We still won the SB with CAMs offense which won a ton of games here as HARBs always said but there was a big difference with Caldwell changing some things in it and calling the plays like using the middle of the field more and spreading things out with 3 set receivers to open up the middle for Pitta's TD.

**AirFlacco** · 04-23-2013, 01:29 AM

And there might be panic in Atlanta which was the last 2012 playoff team not mentioned here.
They just cut their LT, Tyson Clabo due to salary cap just like Ravens got rid of Boldin and
Reed.

But note article says: TIME TO PANIC AT CRUCIAL POSITION?

IT BEGINS AND ENDS AT CRUCIAL SPOT (LT).

SOME SAY IT'S THE SECOND MOST IMPORTANT POSITION IN FOOTBALL NEXT TO THE QB.

THE BEST LTs IN THE DRAFT GO IN THE TOP 5 ROUNDS SO THEY MUST BE IMPORTANT.

And last but not least, Oher's book and movie begins by saying how important the
LT job is at protecting the blind side. The title is: THE BLIND SIDE.
Both the book and movie desribe how Joe Theisman's career was ended because of the
blind side and the movie showed actual film footage of Taylor's hit with Frank Gifford
saying don't look if you have a weak stomach. Theisman's bone is sticking straight thru his leg.

I know the game has changed but just ask Theisman how important the LT is. Then
ask Joe Flacco and maybe the game hasn't changed that much. Flacco would love to
have a young JO protecting his blind side instead of what he has. So would Matt
Ryan in Atlanta and Rivers in SD.

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-falcons...t-left-tackle/

**ctulb** · 04-23-2013, 03:16 AM

IMO LT is of greater importance for us due to our offensive system. We don't dink and dunk that much, the offense relies on giving the receivers time to get open at intermediate and deep levels of the field.

Whether this philosophy changes somewhat under Caldwell, we'll see this coming season.

**Ravenblue** · 04-23-2013, 04:20 AM

I think these days it's less of a need to have an elite LT, as it is to have an above average to good overall line. To counter the proliferation of the passing game, teams are putting more emphasis into developing pass rushers and coming up with elaborate schemes that bring pressure from different places. As such it is devaluing the LT position as a point of emphasis.

You may have an outstanding LT who is locking down the blind side, but if the rest of his linemates are becoming overwhelmed, then it's all going to go very wrong and quickly. Therefore it's simply not worth investing so much in the LT at the expense of the other positions.

**leachisabeast** · 04-23-2013, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by AirFlacco

The last SB champs, NY GIANTS, just signed their LT, Will Beatty to a $38M contract. He's not a pro bowler or franchise LT but is very athletic and a solid pass protector protecting Eli's blind side.

So the bottom line is, the last 3 of 4 LTs in the last 2 SB have been pro bowlers from 07-12 (Light, MacKinnie and Staley) and the one who isn't (Beatty) is very athletic and very, very good at protecting the blind side. Shows how important strong LTs are.

And don't forget Denver, another 2012 playoff team with a pro bowler LT in Ryan Clady. He played vs us but didn't give up any sacks while losing. He's a 3 time pro bowler and has started in 80 straight games although he missed this years pro bowl game due to an injury.

That's 3 2012 playoff teams with pro bowl LTs protecting the blind side.

Someone is mixing apples with oranges.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giant...BAyWXVxdHGjeoJ

Beatty was injured in the play offs IIRC, and they had to play their guard at OT, and he was awful. Beatty only really turned it on last year and earned that contract, and I think he's on his way to becoming a premium OT in the NFL, and he's certainly at this point in his career, better than McKinnie. You say McKinnie is a pro bowler, and while that is true, he hasn't been to the pro bowl since 2009 I believe, and he isn't close to the same player he was back then. Matt Light was a pretty good player in his time, but like McKinnie, he wasn't as good in his later years, and the Patriots still didn't win the SB. The 49ers didn't win either, Joe Staley is obviously a really great player who I WISH we got over Ben Grubbs back in 07, that was a frustrating draft. The actual SB winners only had average at best OTs starting, and did fine.

Don't get me wrong, I actually really want McKinnie back on a 1/2 year deal, not just because he's our best option at LT, and that he's still pretty good, but because it just fits everyone into their natural positions. Having KO and Yanda in the middle, Oher at RT, and McKinnie at LT, would probably make this a top 5 unit like it was in the play offs, I really don't want to miss out on that opportunity, because it was great having that luxury from 08-09. I just love being able to dominant in the trenches on both sides of the ball, that's where the games won. Our Dline is fixed, now fix the Oline.