Ray Lewis' place in history

[JimZipCode]

this dude is a joke

Enshrined into the Pro Football Hall of Fame

did i miss the enshrinement?

I caught that too. Fact-checker error, I presume.

Although it does make some sense: Ray should have ascended directly to the Hall after the Super Bowl post-game ceremony. His HOF induction will be pretty automatic.

[Ravenswintitle]

I caught that too. Fact-checker error, I presume.

Although it does make some sense: Ray should have ascended directly to the Hall after the Super Bowl post-game ceremony. His HOF induction will be pretty automatic.

He ascended into heaven instead

https://youtu.be/917hXkDRCqk

[Ravenboy2003]

Silly to combine them. Ray covered the territory of both OLB spots, MLB, SS and even some DT. Just draw a big circle from the DLine to the SS and out to the hash marks and he was always there.

[Rxdoxx]

Silly to combine them. Ray covered the territory of both OLB spots, MLB, SS and even some DT. Just draw a big circle from the DLine to the SS and out to the hash marks and he was always there.

and he ate film for breakfast, lunch and dinner
he wasn't outworked off the field either

LT 13 years 10 pro bowls
Ray 17 years 13 pro bowls (no pro bowl 2002 only played 5 games, no pro bowl 2005 only played 6 games no pro bowl 2012 only played 6 regular season games - and no pro bowl 1996 his rookie year) so after his rookie year he didn't make the pro bowl if he was injured most of the season, otherwise it was his.
Butkus 8 years 8 pro bowls

[GaTechRavens]

Comparing Ray and LT is futile. I think they're both the GOATs of their respective positions, and beyond that there's no adequate way to compare them. How can we tell if one is doing their job better than the other?

Whenever I see discussions about the greatest ILB it seems like Ray is usually the consensus pick, but many will still say Butkus. That's another comparison that's difficult to make, because I don't want to detract from what Butkus may have done, but it seems he's more mystique than man. Butkus played in an era before DPOY awards and without much film outside of NFL Films highlights, so that's how we view him and his contemporaries. We never hear about bad games or plays they may have had, so they aren't subject to the same scrutiny that modern players are.

Going forward, I do believe and hope that Lewis will be recognized as a largely undisputed GOAT among not just ILBs, but all pure linebackers. The biggest thing he has going for him is that he does have, objectively, the best resume of any pure linebacker in history. He has 13 Pro Bowls (unmatched by any LB), 7 1st Team All-Pros (only exceeded by two LBs from the '50s when the league was much smaller and there were fewer players to compete with), and 2 DPOYs (only matched by Mike Singletary, who no one really ranks ahead of Ray to begin with). In terms of raw stats, though it's hard to measure a LB, he does stand out generally in terms of getting sacks and INTs, and his PD mark stands with the best LBs despite measurement only going back to 2001 and cutting off much of Ray's prime. Then there's the 2000 defense, and the fact that Ray was the by far undisputed best player on the possible GOAT defense is a massive testament to just how great he was at his peak. Also helping him will be the level of fame and attention he has received (though some have always lazily assumed he was overrated because he was so vocal and controversial, much like many assumed Ripken to be overrated because of the streak before the rise of advanced stats shut that argument down), that allows his name to resonate more than other great players.

TL;DR His legacy is secure and should only get stronger. If he isn't already the consensus GOAT linebacker, he will be soon.

[filthflarnfilth]

Butkus was the most overrated player ever. He would not play if him and Ray were on the same team.

[Ravens44]

For what it's worth, as in not much:

All Time All Pro LBs (strong, middle, weak)

1) Lawrence Taylor - Ray Lewis - Jack Ham
2) Bobby Bell - Dick Butkus - Derrick Brooks
3) Junior Seau - Joe Schmidt - Ted Hendricks
4) DeMarucs Ware - Mike Singletary - Chuck Howley
5) Derrick Thomas - Brian Urlacher - Andre Tippett

feels nuts leaving Ray Nitchke and Jack Lambert off but, there you go. MLB is tough and deep all-time. Chicago probably has four of the top ten (Bill George). Not to mention Sam Huff, Chuck Bednarik, Willie Lanier, Nick Buoniconti, Zach Thomas and Patrick Willis.

also not sure where to put modern rush LB/DEs like Terrell Suggs, DeMarcus Ware and Von Miller. I suppose there should be a 4th spot for that position led by LT -- but then old school OLBs look weaker.

I think the thing that changes how I look at linebackers, especially in this case, is who are really rush linebackers, and who are true middle linebackers.
What I haven't seen mentioned, is that LT was part of a defense that ran a 3-4.
He was the WLB, but really transformed into a 4-3 by the snap with LT blitzing from god knows where...
And that was his strength...finding a weak spot and exploiting it like none other.
He was a true disruptor.
But that meant the other 3 LBs, which included HOF Carson and Pro Bowler Carl Banks, had to cover the rest of the field.
That is when they won championships and that is when LT won his greatest accolades.

But looking at your lists. Very nice, and as great as Jack Ham was, and he was...I would move Derrick Thomas up there in his place and make every offense fear that group of LT, Ray and Thomas. But if you want to run a 3-4, then move Butkus next to Ray, and no one gets a first down without breaking something. LOL!

[HbgPARavenfan]

Ray lewis, LT and Deion Sanders are the 3 best Defensive players of all time.

Its hard to differentiated who is better overall. I would lean towards Ray based on who he played against, and the rule changes to an Offensive league happened during his career, and he was still the most dominant player on the field on either side of the ball

[WrongBaldy]

Ray lewis, LT and Deion Sanders are the 3 best Defensive players of all time.

Its hard to differentiated who is better overall. I would lean towards Ray based on who he played against, and the rule changes to an Offensive league happened during his career, and he was still the most dominant player on the field on either side of the ball

reggie white, deacon jones?

[Rxdoxx]

Comparing Ray and LT is futile. I think they're both the GOATs of their respective positions, and beyond that there's no adequate way to compare them. How can we tell if one is doing their job better than the other?

and 2 DPOYs (only matched by Mike Singletary, who no one really ranks ahead of Ray to begin with).

I think Singletary himself ranks Ray ahead of him

In a program on Ray, Singletary was interviewed and he talked about being asked to come to Baltimore to coach LBs.
He talked about Ray and wondered what he could possibly teach that man. Mike was what can I tell him, what do I have to give him?
Then Mike goes on to say he met Ray and Ray was excited, he wanted to learn everything Mike could tell him .... Singletary spoke of his amazement at Ray's attitude, and never had a problem with Ray.
The way Mike spoke of Ray was the way people speak of hollywood stars then when they really meet them they find out they are just down to earth good people (well maybe hollywood stars isn't the best analogy there are some stinkers in there but you get the idea)
I came away with the impression that Mike considered Ray at the very minimum an equal and with nothing to teach him probably better, and spent the time talking about his passion, enthusiasm, dedication, openness to being told things

[camdenyard]

Singletary and Seau are not ranked high enough. Same with Lambert.

I see Ray in the group of LT, Nitschke, Butkus and Singletary. I do think LT would be #1.

[Bawlamer]

Butkus was the most overrated player ever. He would not play if him and Ray were on the same team.

I saw both of them play. I'm not sure your right in your assessment. But it's how you feel and I respect that. In their day both were great and household names and the best at their respective positions. Everyone knew about Lewis and everyone knew of Butkus. But to say Butkus was the most overrated player ever is at best a hyperbole. If you actually meant it I would suggest checking into the Betty Ford clinic. They have programs that will help you.


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