Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

[Terpsfan82]

It looks like our offense playing one of its better games means we got up to the level of the average opponent for the the Pats defense.

This. Besides, when I said Cam's offenses tend to underachieve during the playoffs I was referring to the entire body of work, not just last season.

[wickedsolo]

Lol you think Joe is our best player on offense? I mean yeah he's good, but statistically he isn't even in the top ten in his respective position, while Rice is debated as the best RB in the league. I think Joe has potential to become our best player, and a top 5 QB, but right now he hasn't shown that he is that great to this point.

I do think that Joe is the best player on the offense. Obviously, everything is dependent on everybody doing their job properly, but when Rice isn't getting it done it falls on Joe to put the offense on his shoulders and get it done, which he has multiple times. That's why I think that Joe is the best player on the offensive side of the ball.

Case and point: if Rice goes down, this offense can still get it done because Joe can get it done. If Joe goes down, this offense is going to stagnate no matter how good Rice is.

[bmorecareful]

Well...

NE gained an average of 428 yards per game of offense on the year, our defense held them to 330
NE scored an average of 32.1 points per game on the year, our defense held them to 23
NE allowed an average of 411 yards per game on defense on the year, we gained 398
NE allowed an average of 21.4 points per game on defense on the year, we scored 20
NE committed an average of 1.06 turnovers per game on the year, our defense forced 3
NE forced an average of 2.13 turnovers per game on the year, our offense committed 1

So you tell me if and where there was "underachievement."

Obviously our offense had one of its better games in the AFCCG, but there were still some conservative calls/moments in that game which can be second-guessed considering the stakes and who we were playing (not a low scoring offense and/or stout defense). I would mention them again if they hadn't been mentioned many times over and if doing so wouldn't bring back nauseating memories.

This is a fantastic post. For all of those people who respond to any criticism of Cam/the offense by saying "But we made it to the AFCCG twice in 3 years and the playoffs every year blah blah blah..." Those results only matter with some context. In the context of the 2011 AFCCG, it is CLEAR that in one of our best offensive games of the year, we still were strikingly average in context. Actually, considering how awful our rushing statistics were, perhaps we were even worse than average.

Yes, we've had success under Cam. But has Cam's offense been a consistent contributor to that success? Has he elevated this team above the sum of its parts? Can you honestly say yes to either of those questions?

I'm confident that if our team stays roughly at the level of performance it was last year, that we will do well. However, you can expect anywhere from 2-5 absolute dogshit games from the offense (Jacksonville, NYJ, etc.) and if our defense and STs aren't lights out we'll lose those games.

See, other teams don't go into the season expecting that their offense will produce a couple games under 200 yards with 10 or 12 punts and under 14 points. We have to expect that because history has shown us it will happen.

[Paintballguy]

I do think that Joe is the best player on the offense. Obviously, everything is dependent on everybody doing their job properly, but when Rice isn't getting it done it falls on Joe to put the offense on his shoulders and get it done, which he has multiple times. That's why I think that Joe is the best player on the offensive side of the ball.

Case and point: if Rice goes down, this offense can still get it done because Joe can get it done. If Joe goes down, this offense is going to stagnate no matter how good Rice is.

You only have to look at Rice's stats in last years playoff games to see why Joe is so important:

21 Attempts 60 Yards 2.9 AVG 0 TD's
21 Attempts 67 Yards 3.2 AVG 0 TD's

Rice was contained in both games.

[JAB1985]

I do think that Joe is the best player on the offense. Obviously, everything is dependent on everybody doing their job properly, but when Rice isn't getting it done it falls on Joe to put the offense on his shoulders and get it done, which he has multiple times. That's why I think that Joe is the best player on the offensive side of the ball.

Case and point: if Rice goes down, this offense can still get it done because Joe can get it done. If Joe goes down, this offense is going to stagnate no matter how good Rice is.

Makes sense to me. Top 10 at his position vs top 5 at Rices is one thing, but when youre talking about value to the team its not even a question.

[wickedsolo]

This is a fantastic post. For all of those people who respond to any criticism of Cam/the offense by saying "But we made it to the AFCCG twice in 3 years and the playoffs every year blah blah blah..." Those results only matter with some context. In the context of the 2011 AFCCG, it is CLEAR that in one of our best offensive games of the year, we still were strikingly average in context. Actually, considering how awful our rushing statistics were, perhaps we were even worse than average.

Yes, we've had success under Cam. But has Cam's offense been a consistent contributor to that success? Has he elevated this team above the sum of its parts? Can you honestly say yes to either of those questions?

I'm confident that if our team stays roughly at the level of performance it was last year, that we will do well. However, you can expect anywhere from 2-5 absolute dogshit games from the offense (Jacksonville, NYJ, etc.) and if our defense and STs aren't lights out we'll lose those games.

See, other teams don't go into the season expecting that their offense will produce a couple games under 200 yards with 10 or 12 punts and under 14 points. We have to expect that because history has shown us it will happen.

This.

Easily the biggest "smh" aspect about this team.

[wickedsolo]

You only have to look at Rice's stats in last years playoff games to see why Joe is so important:

21 Attempts 60 Yards 2.9 AVG 0 TD's
21 Attempts 67 Yards 3.2 AVG 0 TD's

Rice was contained in both games.

Makes sense to me. Top 10 at his position vs top 5 at Rices is one thing, but when youre talking about value to the team its not even a question.

And I'd just like to reiterate that I am in no way taking anything away from Rice and his value to this offense.

[Paintballguy]

And I'd just like to reiterate that I am in no way taking anything away from Rice and his value to this offense.

Agreed. Neither am I. It's just a QB driven league.

[The Excellector]

Not in terms of completion percentage (or passing stats), which was the point.

Not the point I argued.

[The Excellector]

Great thread...and great viewpoints by all. When you really think about this topic though we have to take our offensive history and history of our teams success into account...I am sure our coaches and front office do. I have been a PSL holder since day 1 and live and die by how our Ravens do. With that said I personally have been very critical of Cam...feel like we have at least most of the pieces in place to make a run at it and for the last four years we have...but in heartbreaking fashion we come up short. With that said we all need to take a step back and look at the success we have had recently even though we haven't won the Super Bowl, in comparison to the rest of the league, we are a very successful franchise. Does it hurt like hell not to win the Super Bowl, you bet...but our philosophy of how football should be played works better than 90% of the other teams in the NFL. Now, we have to ask ourselves, what "tweaks" do we need to get us over the hump. Hopefully, our defense, although slightly aging in respect to the leadership roles (Ray and Ed...other than that we are young) we have to assume "holds tight" (even without Suggs...ouch...). That means what has to be done is a slight improvement to the offense to get us over the hump. A major change where we see Flacco chucking the ball everywhere via Rogers or Brady style would be a paradigm shift in our team philosophy and dangerous in my opinion (this would take a total offense philosophy change effecting blocking schemes...route running...and an overhaul in the playbook in general)...we would be massively changing a system that has got us to 2 AFC championship games and the playoffs in the last 4 years. We have arguably the best fullback and runningback in the league. To not lean on your best position players and the defense in my opinion, for lack of a better word, is "stupid." (Our own players said this last year when we lost lost, when we shouldn't have, and Rice didn't touch the ball nearly enough). Back to the point, what needs to change in our offensive philosophy to get us over the hump? We need a slightly more effective passing game. We do not need the "lets throw it everywhere philosophy that Green Bay and the Patriots use (although effectively). My thinking is we brought in Jones to stretch the field along with Torey. Put Boldin in the slot. Now we have safeties back and corners jamming or playing 10 yards off the ball. Back to my point...lean on your best players. Leach and Rice now have room to roam...bring the safeties in the box...and we burn you with our speed WR speed. We are close...we don't need a total offense philosophy change...look at our success (although it hurts like hell when we get close and lose), what we need is a slightly more balanced offense with speed that keeps opposing defenses on their toes and defensive coordinators up late at night wondering "how in the hell do I stop this offense." Looking forward to the year...we have the pieces in place...they just need to come together and gel...GO RAVENS

The only issue that I take with this post is that, what you deem to be dangerous to team success (Which I agree is risky), resembles what Joe Flacco feels needs to be done, in order to get this team over the hump.

Joe is essentially saying that if you want a more efficient passing offense, you can't leave it as your offense's last resort anymore and that you can't be afraid to sling it. It just seems difficult to find a more efficient passing offense without giving it more repetitions and overall attention.

If you don't give it more repetitions and attention, you at least know that you can make the playoffs. However, in order to get to the point where the passing offense can be an after thought, more efficient at that, you might have to take the risk of putting more emphasis on it first, to improve its quality overall. I think that is what Joe is trying to say and it goes along with the playing not to lose mentality. Sometimes, if you want the ring, you have to take chances.

[jd345]

The only issue that I take with this post is that, what you deem to be dangerous to team success (Which I agree is risky), resembles what Joe Flacco feels needs to be done, in order to get this team over the hump.

Joe is essentially saying that if you want a more efficient passing offense, you can't leave it as your offense's last resort anymore and that you can't be afraid to sling it. It just seems difficult to find a more efficient passing offense without giving it more repetitions and overall attention.

If you don't give it more repetitions and attention, you at least know that you can make the playoffs. However, in order to get to the point where the passing offense can be an after thought, more efficient at that, you might have to take the risk of putting more emphasis on it first, to improve its quality overall. I think that is what Joe is trying to say and it goes along with the playing not to lose mentality. Sometimes, if you want the ring, you have to take chances.

Totally agree with everything you said and I think we are thinking alike, just saying it in slightly different words. I want Joe passing more and taking more chances as I feel as if he, and the team, are ready and it is the next logical progression in our team's growth (enter Jim Caldwell). I just feel like some people think we need a major overhaul, an overhaul in which we become a team that puts more emphasis on the pass then the run (for the record...I want a balanced offensive) and completely overhaul the playbook and our offensive mindset. Wrong or right I feel like if we look at what the front office has done in regards to players and money spent, we are looking at much of the cap space tied up in the running game (Leach and Rice are 2 of the highest paid at their position) and the defense. How we spend our cap space and the players we give big contracts to, are in my opinion, who the coaches will build the gameplan around (whether that is right, wrong, or indifferent). Just my two cents...more than willing to be completely wrong as long as we win :) GO RAVENS!

[houstonravensfan]

The missing point in all the posts above (unless I missed something) is the OL. We need improvement there, especially considering our OL's (under) performance tonight. No ofeensive strategy can succeed with a poor OL.