Did the Orioles/MLB schedule another home game on the first Thursday in September again?

[Haloti92]

I don't post here much. Mostly like reading the opinions and information. But this one makes me laugh.

The NFL, a few years ago, decided to try to make the opener something like baseball's opening day. It is not. As a Ravens season ticket holder ( my name is on the wall outside the stadium as i was in the original expansion group), I don't give a damn and I honestly don't like Thursday games.

Opening Day as an event belongs to baseball. Opening day for football is contrived. And not even consistent. I don't give a crap about concerts in town or any of that nonsense. Play the game. Football is not a out carnivals or concerts. It is about the game.

Those of you getting upset about it are falling for the NFL propaganda machine. It is not that big a deal to almost anyone anywhere.

And, yes, it is up to the NFL to ask for the date. The Grand Prix people reserved the day ahead of time. It is not MLB's job to work out the NFL schedule when the NFL hasn't even announced yet that they are opening on Sept 5. They have been known to move their opening weekend. They used to open on Labor Day weekend. Now they try to avoid it. Nothing the NFL does is constant. Including the non-tradition of the Super Bowl champ opening at home on Thursday.

It doesn't matter what your opinion is of NFL opening game celebrations. It only matters that some/many/most fans do care.

You have provided no evidence of any propaganda by the NFL, though there is obviously propaganda being put forth by MLB/O's ("we really would like to help avoid such a conflict but our hands are tied"....fast forward a year and they intentionally schedule a possible conflict)

The NFL already asked. Publicly. We all saw it. It was a semi-big controversy, I am surprised you missed it. They asked if MLB and the O's could accommodate the NFL to move the already scheduled game in 2013. There was no easy accommodation possible, and the MLB and O's said as much. Now we get to 2014 and the MLB and O's deliberately schedule that day again, thereby inviting a possible repeat of a conflict that the two supposedly wanted/want to avoid.

As for the NFL opening week, it has been the week after Labor day for the last 10+ years. And the home opener being on Thursday also has occurred the last 10+ years. And the defending champ hosting the home opener has been for the last 10 years (other than 2013, which was the conflict that precipitated this debate).

Sorry, there is no logical reason why the O's/MLB scheduled a home game on 9/4/2014 other than to needle the NFL. None. Nor has anyone even attempted to offer one. The illogical "they didn't know about the date," and the illogical "without some kind of fictional paperwork they are prevented from leaving the date free" do not count.

[HoustonRaven]

Y'all figure it out yet?

:DeadHorse:

[downside52]

I'm responding to your idea about the 'benefits to the city.' I'm pointing out that national attention was going to be focused on Baltimore, whether home or away, on the first weekend. Or did you not see the constant shots of the inner harbor and the crowd gathered there? The only way that we were going to get that kind of impact for an away game was if the season opener was an away game.

On the other hand, there is ALREADY a huge economic impact of every Ravens home game. You can't get more than 100%, which is where our attendance always is. So the overall impact to the city is actually greater by having the opener on the road.

Can you provide any kind of argument/facts/data to show that it would have been more advantageous to Baltimore city if the opener had been held here? Because so far all you're throwing out is sarcasm and "OBVIOUSLY it would be better"-type of arguments. Which is to say no argument at all.


Here you're just answering your own question. Earlier=first crack, doesn't it? If I get to a restaurant before you, I get first crack at a table. If I call first to make my reservation, I get first crack. Right? You don't then come in and say, well I will pay more for my steak, so give me HotInHere's table.



I still don't get your idea that contracts don't matter and you should just tear them up and award resources to whoever gives you more money. Exactly what America do you live in? That has never been the case. A contract is a contract.

1. I don't care if they occasionally showed the inner harbor during the bloodbath the other night.

2. I'm being sarcastic because it's pretty crazy to have to defend this. The superbowl champs should have been able to open at home, and unveil the superbowl banner on national tv. Period. All parties are guilty and had an opportunity to avert the slap in the face that was last Thursday, sure. NFL, MLB, etc. That being said, the events of this conflict have made plain that the system for determining who gets the parking lots on what day is flawed.

3. The bidding process for public resources is slightly more complicated than the process of ordering a steak in a restaurant. But even still, I've seen plenty of restaurants move a party of two in order to accommodate a party of 10.

4. Baseball should not have the exclusive rights to whatever days they want and Football gets whatever is left over. If this is the only way to enable the two teams to share the parking lot, then a better system of arbitrating between conflicts needs to be developed.

5. I haven't seen whatever agreement the O's have with the city, but I would be shocked if there wasnt a provision for the city to make changes when needed.

[HotInHere]

Jesus, dude. I keep trying to get out of this thread. And you keep posting things that are just not true.

...And the home opener being on Thursday also has occurred the last 10+ years.

Go ahead and look up what day of the week the season opening game was played on last year. I'll wait.

The illogical "they didn't know about the date," and the illogical "without some kind of fictional paperwork they are prevented from leaving the date free" do not count.

Did someone ever say either of these things? Could you please post the link if you are posting quotes that supposedly another poster made? Cuz otherwise it's made-up bullshit.

[Haloti92]

Jesus, dude. I keep trying to get out of this thread. And you keep posting things that are just not true.

Is this really coming from the guy who already conceded (rightfully so) the debate and admitted the MLB/O's scheduled the game out of spite. That seemed like a good place to permanently exit. But now, for some reason, you feel obligated to respond to me again and also hilariously are trying to blame me.

Go ahead and look up what day of the week the season opening game was played on last year. I'll wait.

LOL. You mean the game that was scheduled for Thursday and moved at the last minute for the President? That you think this matters in the current debate indicates you may not be worth the time.

It is an embarrassing point for you to make, and combined with the arrogant "I'll wait," it is precious comedy!

Did someone ever say either of these things? Could you please post the link if you are posting quotes that supposedly another poster made? Cuz otherwise it's made-up bullshit.

Of course you implied these things. You are posting in the link that shows it clearly (try reading the record).

Every time you post BS about "asking" and mention the Grand Prix and the circus, you are implying that MLB had no idea the date was a conflict date. Every time, when confronted with the obvious fact that MLB is aware, you then shift to the implication that the "ask" has to be some kind of official "ask." Total bullshit. And it was repeated by another poster.

Perhaps you can cut to the chase for once and for all and give the reason why MLB scheduled the game on a date (2014) they knew was a potential conflict. Let's hear it. Oh yeah, wait, you already did that, you said for spite. So what the hell are you arguing about now since we both agree on the reasoning?

[BcRaven]

It would be as much ado about nothing if there was any reason at all. Literally any reason, for the O's/MLB to schedule a home game on 9/4/2014. Or.....if there were no such people living in Baltimore who would be upset that they do not get to host an NFL opening-season celebration in their home town.

Since neither is the case, then it is more than "nothing."

In the grand scheme of things, this is "nothing." Many people, myself included, had friends over for a Ravens - Broncos party with pizza and beer. We may have been depressed the way the game went, but not because we didn't have a chance at some city celebration.
We certainly had one the day the Ravens won the Super Bowl, and hopefully we'll have another soon. If you want the Orioles to change their schedule, then perhaps the movie theaters and restaurants should close too...then everyone can celebrate because there would be nothing else to do... Bc

[Haloti92]

In the grand scheme of things, this is "nothing." Many people, myself included, had friends over for a Ravens - Broncos party with pizza and beer. We may have been depressed the way the game went, but not because we didn't have a chance at some city celebration.
We certainly had one the day the Ravens won the Super Bowl, and hopefully we'll have another soon. If you want the Orioles to change their schedule, then perhaps the movie theaters and restaurants should close too...then everyone can celebrate because there would be nothing else to do... Bc

Nothing here addresses my points.

I already get it that you don't care about a home opener (in fact, I don't really care either). But many people do. That is a fact, and not one that is changed by you continuing to assert that you or I don't care.

And this is not about "changing a schedule" like 2013. This is about voluntarily "making a schedule" (2014) that causes a possible conflict that you have publicly asserted to your city's fans you wanted to avoid. In short it is about lying. And about punishing some Baltimore fans just to spite the NFL. Both of which can be rightfully called out. And neither of which have been denied by any argument I have seen thus far (nor do I see how they ever will be considering the evidence).

[HotInHere]

Is this really coming from the guy who already conceded (rightfully so) the debate and admitted the MLB/O's scheduled the game out of spite. That seemed like a good place to permanently exit. But now, for some reason, you feel obligated to respond to me again and also hilariously are trying to blame me.

No, actually THIS is a good place to permanently exit. You have a reading comprehension problem. I didn't concede the point that MLB scheduled the game out of spite. I *MADE* that point. On page three. My first post in this thread. Before you ever did. And then I quoted it again. But apparently, you haven't read it yet. So I'll post it one more time.

After the way the NFL went out of their way to spin this (successfully, mind you) including during the Ravens/Broncos broadcast, I am quite sure MLB is going out of their way to say "fuck you."

Anything at all unclear about that?

LOL. You mean the game that was scheduled for Thursday and moved at the last minute for the President? That you think this matters in the current debate indicates you may not be worth the time.

Okay, so the facts don't matter. Got it. You said it has happened on Thursday every year for the past 10 years. It didn't. But I guess it doesn't matter since that doesn't fit with your narrative. BTW, the game last year was NEVER scheduled for Thursday -- they scheduled it the prior February, not at the last minute. But that's another fact that I'm sure does not matter to you.

Of course you implied these things. You are posting in the link that shows it clearly (try reading the record).

Every time you post BS about "asking" and mention the Grand Prix and the circus, you are implying that MLB had no idea the date was a conflict date. Every time, when confronted with the obvious fact that MLB is aware, you then shift to the implication that the "ask" has to be some kind of official "ask." Total bullshit. And it was repeated by another poster.

I implied no such thing. In fact, I stated that I felt they scheduled 2014 out of spite. Here's what you accused me of implying. And yet you can't back it up with anything I actually said.

The illogical "they didn't know about the date,"

I never implied that they did not know about the date. Ever. In fact, on page six I said that "of course they were aware." How could I have suggested they didn't know about the date when my first post in the thread was that they scheduled the game out of spite? Hard to do if you don't know the date, don't you think?

All I implied, and in fact stated, is that it is not their responsibility to track the NFL's schedule. And it's not.

and the illogical "without some kind of fictional paperwork they are prevented from leaving the date free" do not count.

When did I ever even come close to suggesting that MLB is prevented from leaving the date free? They make the schedule -- they can leave any date free that they want. That's just ludicrous.

It's either a reading comprehension problem, or you just aren't actually reading what anyone else is writing because you're too focused on the point you want to make. Either way, I'd love to consider a sensible debate. But you have stated that facts don't matter, and refuse to read what I've actually said. So 'sensible debate' seems to be off the table. And we stopped talking about football awhile ago.

[Haloti92]

No, actually THIS is a good place to permanently exit. You have a reading comprehension problem. I didn't concede the point that MLB scheduled the game out of spite. I *MADE* that point. On page three. My first post in this thread. Before you ever did. And then I quoted it again. But apparently, you haven't read it yet. So I'll post it one more time.

Good plan since you have been spinning your wheels for quite some time. You conceded the point after arguing that the NFL "didn't ask" and other claims that the NFL is somehow responsible for MLB scheduling a game on 9/4/2014. Without the nonsensical claims, there would have been no argument.

Anything at all unclear about that?

Yep, and I already said what it was. It is your simultaneous stances that the MLB scheduled a game that harms Baltimore's fans just to "spite" the NFL, while blaming the NFL because they "didn't ask" (like the circus "asks", etc.) Yep, totally unclear as to how you put those two arguments together. Is anything unclear about the fact that I have only been arguing with the latter part of the argument?

Okay, so the facts don't matter. Got it. You said it has happened on Thursday every year for the past 10 years. It didn't. But I guess it doesn't matter since that doesn't fit with your narrative. BTW, the game last year was NEVER scheduled for Thursday -- they scheduled it the prior February, not at the last minute. But that's another fact that I'm sure does not matter to you.

You know what else is a fact? Mount McKinley is the highest peak in North America. Does that matter? Wait, but it is a fact.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ention-speech/

"NFL moves game"...."the same night the NFL was originally set to hold its kickoff game."

You are terribly arguing a transparent straw man. You are attempting to pretend that the NFL does not plan/schedule/desire to have the opening season game on Thursday night every year (for the last decade), but rather may or may not have it Thursday or Wednesday depending on only their whims.

The question is why you are engaging in this futile effort.

1) Because you are trying to argue MLB might not be sure when the NFL will schedule their game (like Tony tried) because it is "new" or in this case "wasn't Thursday in one of the 10 years?" Absolutely stupid. Thursday is the day desired by the NFL and known to all (but the disingenuous).

2) Because you are trying to argue that the NFL will actually move it to another day under certain circumstances? Who cares? Of course they will when the NIGHT is ruled out and not the STADIUM. And the President speaking ruins the night, playing in Denver vs. Baltimore does not ruin the night. And incidentally, you do or do not realize that the O's/MLB also have a home game scheduled for Wednesday in 2014 (and Tuesday). Ooooops.

I implied no such thing. In fact, I stated that I felt they scheduled 2014 out of spite. Here's what you accused me of implying. And yet you can't back it up with anything I actually said.

I already told you how you implied it. You want an exact quote? Here you go:

You - "The NFL could have made requests of MLB before the schedule came out." (post #54)

Why does this matter if MLB scheduled due to spite? What are you trying to blame the NFL for when you keep saying the MLB scheduled out of spite?

You - "I haven't seen anything to suggest they requested MLB keep that date open next year either." (Post #32)

I thought MLB scheduled out of spite? Why are you speculating that the NFL did not "request" the date? And as I have said 10 times, why does MLB need such a request? To be aware of the date? Bzzzztt. They are aware. Because without some formal request they cannot avoid the date? Bzzzztt. Getting the picture?

You - "Maybe a better question is why the NFL hasn't asked them to. Are you really saying it is MLB's responsibility to check all possible civic conflicts? What about conventions? Concerts? International soccer?" (Post #61)

There you are again arguing as if MLB might not have been aware of the date, lol. You suffering amnesia? Forgot you posted that? I mean you already said that MLB knew the date and scheduled out of spite, correct? And this post makes sense how?

You - "And unless you know something that I don't, they haven't asked before the fact this year. If there is evidence that the NFL asked MLB to please schedule the Orioles out of town on that Thursday in 2014, and MLB ignored the request, then I will change my tune. That would be ridiculous on MLB's part." (Post #64)

I thought it was spite? Wait now you are saying it would be ridiculous if it were spite? Huh? And what do you mean the NFL "hasn't asked" this year? Asked for what reason? Why does anything that is common knowledge need to be "asked?" Again (and again and again), what is the purpose of the ask? To inform MLB of the date? Bzzzzzt. They know. Because without a formal ask MLB MUST schedule a home O's game on 9/4/2014? Bzzzztt. They could have easily left the date free.

You - "And I'm not saying MLB isn't aware of it. What I am saying is that the onus is not on MLB to be worried about what the NFL may or may not wish to schedule" (Also Post #64)

You are, in two short sentences, claiming that you agree MLB was aware of the date, but that the "onus" of making MLB aware of the date is on the NFL. WTF is that? Seriously.

You - "Now this year, again, they are doing nothing. Of course MLB is aware. So what? Being aware doesn't accomplish anything. Action has to take place ensure that if Baltimore wins the SB, they host the preseason opener. And that action has to begin with the NFL. If they want it to happen, there are many actions they can take. And they have taken none of them. And all you want to talk about is MLB. It's not their problem; it's not their responsibility." (Post #71)

Good grief. What happened to the "spite" concession? It is the NFL's fault for not "taking action?" Please make it stop. So painful to read. Obviously "being aware" accomplishes the goal of "being aware" of the potential repeat of the conflict MLB has claimed to want to avoid. I shouldn't have to state such obviousness as this but here goes: MLB "being aware" of the conflict date + the ability of MLB to make a schedule that avoids the date = elimination of the possibility of a problem. Nowhere in the equation is there the need for the NFL to do anything, "action" or otherwise. Of course, your whole paragraph makes no sense assuming you believe the MLB acted out of spite (and not some failure of the NFL "to take action").

I never implied that they did not know about the date. Ever. In fact, on page six I said that "of course they were aware." How could I have suggested they didn't know about the date when my first post in the thread was that they scheduled the game out of spite? Hard to do if you don't know the date, don't you think?

See the above record of the implications (and/or re-read your posts). Good question as to how you could rationally suggest they were unaware of the date after claiming spite. Perhaps once you figure out why you did, you will stop spinning your wheels with me. And obviously, had you not done just that, we wouldn't even be arguing.

All I implied, and in fact stated, is that it is not their responsibility to track the NFL's schedule. And it's not.

Uh oh, lol, here we go again. Why would you feel the need to even state this unless you are implying the MLB was not made aware of the date (and the fact they were unaware is not their fault)? This is a totally illogical thing to state after admitting that MLB knew the date and scheduled out of spite. Yet there you are stating it.

When did I ever even come close to suggesting that MLB is prevented from leaving the date free? They make the schedule -- they can leave any date free that they want. That's just ludicrous.

I was eliminating all possibilities. When you simultaneously claim that MLB knew the date and that the NFL "did not ask," then the only rational way to reconcile these two statements is to conclude you meant that there was some official "ask" or paperwork missing that is required for MLB to schedule around a conflict date. It occurs in the real world, but obviously, as I said, is not the issue here.

It's either a reading comprehension problem, or you just aren't actually reading what anyone else is writing because you're too focused on the point you want to make. Either way, I'd love to consider a sensible debate. But you have stated that facts don't matter, and refuse to read what I've actually said. So 'sensible debate' seems to be off the table. And we stopped talking about football awhile ago.

Precious irony!

I would love to consider a sensible debate as well, but obviously that is apparently impossible when you are involved. Literally impossible.

It is almost as if your account is a community account shared by many. Maybe a frat house or something? Where different people log in and carry on multiple arguments that may or may not conflict with each other depending on which person logs in and the extent that person reads all the things the other personalities have posted under the same handle. ;)

[Ravenswintitle]

Y'all figure it out yet?

:DeadHorse:

Not even close...

[TonyD79]

There's a guy named Steve Bisciotti who can truly say that the Ravens are his team, and you can trust that it was a pretty big deal for him.

Really? Then why did we open on the road this year? I didn't hear him pushing the NFL to play Wednesday so we could open at home in the first game.

[TonyD79]

Nothing here addresses my points.

I already get it that you don't care about a home opener (in fact, I don't really care either). But many people do. That is a fact, and not one that is changed by you continuing to assert that you or I don't care.

And this is not about "changing a schedule" like 2013. This is about voluntarily "making a schedule" (2014) that causes a possible conflict that you have publicly asserted to your city's fans you wanted to avoid. In short it is about lying. And about punishing some Baltimore fans just to spite the NFL. Both of which can be rightfully called out. And neither of which have been denied by any argument I have seen thus far (nor do I see how they ever will be considering the evidence).

Hold up. When did anyone punish Baltimore? Just because two posters on the Internet decided the scheduling for 2014 was deliberate, that is fact now?