The Gay Thread cont.

[wickedsolo]

You're falling into the trap of listening to the vocal minority. It's the exact same problem Muslims faced after 9-11 in that a very small percentage of the Muslims world wide got together and decided to blow shit up for no obvious reason. Suddenly the Muslims with the most face time on television are those declaring jihads left and right, so naturally everyone thinks that all Muslims are anti-USA which is no where near the truth.

I'm not falling into any trap. I realize that he's the minority and folks like him are also in the minority. My point was that religion [not just Christianity] can be - and has a history of being - used to promote hate and intolerance. Those people believe what they're doing and saying is the right thing to do. They emphatically believe that "God" (whatever he, she, or it is) wants them to do all of the awful things that they do...all in the name of Christ, Christianity, and the Bible. Same with the radical Islamists. They emphatically believe that Allah wants them to kill infidels (which has become a representation for Americans essentially).

They use the "word of God" to back their outrageous and seemingly insane beliefs.

The louder and zanier your antics, the more likely you are to be on television. Johnny Knoxville is a great example. You brought up Fred Phelps as an intolerant jackass, which he is. That's one. Now think of all the Christians you know who aren't jerks. You'll be surprised that we out number the jerks by quite a large margin.

Religion splits people 1 of 2 ways. Those who don't care what others do and legitimately want to just develop their own personal spirituality and then those that develop various forms of intolerance because that's how they are interpreting their religion (or that's how it is being interpreted for them...I'd venture to say this is probably more true).

And Johnny Knoxville is a Saint. :)

To clarify, I mean Christians who aren't INTOLERANT jerks. I'm a Christian and a huge jerk but not intolerant. I just think people should strive to reach my lofty standards of awesomeness.

This got a chuckle out of me and I assume you're just joking. However, isn't this statement in and of itself a bit of intolerance in that you think people should be striving to reach your standards?

[HoustonRaven]

I'm not falling into any trap. I realize that he's the minority and folks like him are also in the minority. My point was that religion [not just Christianity] can be - and has a history of being - used to promote hate and intolerance. Those people believe what they're doing and saying is the right thing to do. They emphatically believe that "God" (whatever he, she, or it is) wants them to do all of the awful things that they do...all in the name of Christ, Christianity, and the Bible. Same with the radical Islamists. They emphatically believe that Allah wants them to kill infidels (which has become a representation for Americans essentially).

I do not agree with this. People have used religion as their excuse for intolerance and other evil deeds, but organized religion as a whole, specifically the followers, are not the problem.

As stated before, it's the vocal minority of radicals that give their respective religions a bad name.

[jonboy79]

I take it you are comparing the writers of ancient religious texts with L. Ron Hubbard and his use of Dianetics to make himself money and get himself power.

Tell me, what did the authors of the New Testament gain from their writings?

Really I was comparing them in the manner in that they are books written by men.

But to further answer yoru question, they gained control. The catholic church throughout time has been amongst the most powerful organizations on this planet.

[wickedsolo]

I do not agree with this. People have used religion as their excuse for intolerance and other evil deeds, but organized religion as a whole, specifically the followers, are not the problem.

As stated before, it's the vocal minority of radicals that give their respective religions a bad name.

Organized religion can absolutely be a problem if the people leading that organization take it that way, which certainly happens.

The crusades and the witch trials ring a bell.

[NCRAVEN]

Organized religion can absolutely be a problem if the people leading that organization take it that way, which certainly happens.

The crusades and the witch trials ring a bell.

You're still blaming the religion for the mistakes or faults of the people in them. Not saying organized religion is perfect or anything, just that it can't be blamed for when it's followers go wrong.

[wickedsolo]

You're still blaming the religion for the mistakes or faults of the people in them. Not saying organized religion is perfect or anything, just that it can't be blamed for when it's followers go wrong.

I'm not blaming the idea of religion at all and I clearly stated in the blurb of mine that you quoted that organized religion can be a problem when the people who are leading/organizing make it a problem. I.e. they are interpreting the religion in such a way to justify their actions and encouraging their organization to adopt those interpretations as truths.

[NCRAVEN]

I'm not blaming the idea of religion at all and I clearly stated in the blurb of mine that you quoted that organized religion can be a problem when the people who are leading/organizing make it a problem. I.e. they are interpreting the religion in such a way to justify their actions and encouraging their organization to adopt those interpretations as truths.

Yeah, I thought about my post. It was not worded properly.

[darb72]

I'm not falling into any trap. I realize that he's the minority and folks like him are also in the minority. My point was that religion [not just Christianity] can be - and has a history of being - used to promote hate and intolerance. Those people believe what they're doing and saying is the right thing to do. They emphatically believe that "God" (whatever he, she, or it is) wants them to do all of the awful things that they do...all in the name of Christ, Christianity, and the Bible. Same with the radical Islamists. They emphatically believe that Allah wants them to kill infidels (which has become a representation for Americans essentially).

They use the "word of God" to back their outrageous and seemingly insane beliefs.

You've just described anything humans get their hands on. We're a great species for corrupting things, just look at unions. Back when they started unions were necessary to fight against the way businesses treated people. They still are, in a lot of cases, but you hear about how sometimes they do more harm than good. The city of New York is paying over 3 million dollars a year to teachers they can't fire because of the teachers union. Some of those teachers have been accused of sexual misconduct with students, but the union repeatedly hold up the process to determine what happened because... well I can't think of why. Now those people are on paid leave for years, getting free money.

Religion splits people 1 of 2 ways. Those who don't care what others do and legitimately want to just develop their own personal spirituality and then those that develop various forms of intolerance because that's how they are interpreting their religion (or that's how it is being interpreted for them...I'd venture to say this is probably more true).

And Johnny Knoxville is a Saint. :)

Those people were bigoted before finding religion. Their "religious views" just give them an excuse.

This got a chuckle out of me and I assume you're just joking. However, isn't this statement in and of itself a bit of intolerance in that you think people should be striving to reach your standards?

It's not intolerant at all. I just want everyone to be their best, and since I am the best they should all aspire to being me.

[HoustonRaven]

Those people were bigoted before finding religion. Their "religious views" just give them an excuse.

This.

[Greg]

Three words man.

Reverend. Fred. Phelps.


It's funny because all I've ever heard growing up was about how religions are meant to teach understanding and forgiveness, but instead what they mostly instill is intolerance and all that goes with it in the name of whichever "God" you choose to worship.

That Fred Phelps and others have fallen short does nothing, NOTHING, to prove anything in regare to God's exisxtence. It just proves people, all people, Christians or not, fail.

And God can forgive anybody and He probably did forgive Eve, if she asked.

Isn't that what the Catholic Church did anyway? All of the other denominations that followed suit did the same exact things.

The Bible, much like the Constitution, is a document that can be interpreted a hundred different ways and can be applied to almost anything.

People can consider a sentanec e the truth and then interpret its meaning differently, but they still take it as the truth.

That said, there are a core set of beliefs all Christians can and do agree on

I can certainly judge the creator as flawed if I see people dying from their inability to obtain vital resources which the "creator" created a need for them to obtain. Food and water.

Really, so you KNOW it is God's fault these people don't have food and water and not theirs or ours?

Again, these people choose to live where there are a lack of resources and we choose not to give them the help they need. This is free will working. It is God's will we do something about it. Besides bitching, what are you doing about it?

You have made no point. You need to show that it is logically inconsistent that an all powerful and loving God would have no reason for allowing these people to be in such need to prove this would show some flaw. You haven't come close.