For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco

**ed from Bel Air** · 03-09-2015, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by ravensnhokies

This is what pisses me off about old Colts fans... Jones is totally underrated in the annals of old QBs, but he is somewhat overrated in terms of how old Colts fans view him. I hate crapping on Jones b/c I really liked him... he was my favorite Colt growing up.. but you cannot overlook his playoff performance. That's why I think its crazy to say Jones is better than Joe. If you want a regular season champ over a postseason champ be my guess. I'll take Joe.

Hey watch it Hokie. I resemble that remark.

Bert was a terrific QB. He had a cannon for an arm, better than Joe's, but as was said earlier, he lacked touch.

He was a lot like Marino, firing up guys in the huddle and chewing them out when they needed chewing out. I thought he was a great QB, a great leader for a short time, unfortunately he was surrounded by a lot of knuckle heads like Curtis Dickey, who slept through game plan meetings, and Roger Carr who only ran hard when the play was called to him.

It's a shame Jones played when he did. The Steelers and Raiders had dynasties, back before the salary cap. He had to play here with Irsay, Thomas, and Ted Marchibroda, who I agree with AF was in over his head. If the Colts had a half decent defense and he stayed healthy he could have been something special.

But I have to agree. Joe's longer term accomplishments outshine Bert's short-term brilliance.

(And Ted I apologize for mentioning you in the same sentence as Irsay and Joe Thomas, those rat bastards).

**turftoe** · 03-09-2015, 09:46 PM

Flacco is very good no argument from me. He's the Best the Ravens have had to date, and i am a fan, but he is no Bert Jones. IMO if Bert Jones didn't get hurt he would have been in the HOF. Bert had a better arm and was more Athletic;he also ran the offense as in " he was the leader and everybody knew it." Plus back then it was a much rougher NFL; it wasn't the powder puff league of today. The DB's could get away with a lot more then now , and you didn't get a 15 yard penalty flag for ruffing the passer if you just touched them. I mean you could whack them as you wish. Just go on youtube and watch how Mike Curtis of th Baltimore Colts hit. Thats how you could hit back then. Also go watch how Bert played too. That's just my two cents.

**AirFlacco** · 03-10-2015, 01:52 AM

Bert didn't play at all his first two years as most rookie QBs sat. Joe
started his rookie after the two QBs ahead of him went down.

Before the series of injuries that eventually ended his career, Jones
had passed for more than 300 yards six times within a span of three years.

Under Bert Jones the Baltimore Colts had one of the most explosive offenses in the NFL. In 1977, he ranked first in completions, second in passing yards and fifth in touchdowns for the sixth ... Troup threw just 10 touchdowns and 21 interceptions as the once formidable offense plummeted to among the worst in the league.

http://www.lasportshall.com/inductee...?back=inductee

On the eve of Super Bowl XLII New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick, in discussing his choices for the greatest quarterbacks of all time, described Jones as the best "pure passer" he ever saw.

And we're talking pure passer, not an era. Bert also read defenses a lot faster and
better than Joe.

Ernie Acorsi said under different circumstances Bert would have been the best QB
ever.

**alienstar** · 03-10-2015, 07:18 AM

I was old enough to watch Bert, had season tix with family. Joe's durability just blows Berts away. As many have said , very different era though.

**HbgPARavenfan** · 03-10-2015, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by JMUpurkfool

No idea, I'm 24. The older guys here have discussed Bert Jones a lot and from what I gather they think he would have saved the Colts if not for his injury.

Elway would have saved the colts

**PalladinInNC** · 03-10-2015, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan

Elway would have saved the colts

No he wouldn't! Elway's career would have been destroyed just like Jones' was if he stayed here! As much as we hated Elway for forcing the Colts to trade him (and I never liked Elway at all) I don't blame him at all for doing what he did. He called the Colt's bluff and won (thanks to Irsay chickening out).

Elway's in the HOF now while Jones is an afterthought! It would have happened to Elway too if he played in the Baltimore Colts Circus back then.

**Terpsfan82** · 03-10-2015, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by PalladinInNC

No he wouldn't! Elway's career would have been destroyed just like Jones' was if he stayed here! As much as we hated Elway for forcing the Colts to trade him (and I never liked Elway at all) I don't blame him at all for doing what he did. He called the Colt's bluff and won (thanks to Irsay chickening out).

Elway's in the HOF now while Jones is an afterthought! It would have happened to Elway too if he played in the Baltimore Colts Circus back then.

I agree. Elway didn't want to play for Frank Kush, who was a raving maniac as a HC.

**AirFlacco** · 03-10-2015, 01:48 PM

It was Jack Elway who didn't want John to play for Kush.There was a bitter
feud between them in college ball. I never knew what it was. Maybe Kush
stole some recruits from Jack or something but whatever it was it was personal.
Elway wasn't coming here and he said a million times it had nothing to do
with Baltimore but Elway was a golden surfer boy in California and wanted to
stay out there so Baltimore wasn't the cream of the crop for cities but once
Kush was named coach, Elway wasn't coming here.

He also played baseball and I think the Yankees drafted him or were going to but
he was a slap hitter at best with a strong arm in the outfield. He signed that
contract in Denver really fast so there was no way he was playing in the bushes
for the Yankees. Irsay said at least I got him out
of California and away from the beach. lol

He still wasn't coming here even after Colts drafted him he wasn't coming here
so Irsay paniced and traded him to Denver. I think he could have had 3
draft choices from OAK for him before the draft - high picks - I think.

Ernie Acorsi said Elway's pen was raised. He had caved in and was going to
sign when Irsay traded him w/o consulting his GM.

Elway wouldn't have saved the Colts, neither would Bert or Marino whom I
wanted in that draft. Marino would have put fans in the seats but Irsay
was going to move unless he got a new stadium which he never got.

The old timers are not saying Bert would have saved the franchise it's just that
at he had the purest arm Bellicheat ever saw and he might have been the best
ever in a different system and better coach and owner.

You think JOe would be doing this well if he played in the 70s in that circus and think
if Bert was playing here now?

**MrReasonable** · 03-10-2015, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by turftoe

Flacco is very good no argument from me. He's the Best the Ravens have had to date, and i am a fan, but he is no Bert Jones. IMO if Bert Jones didn't get hurt he would have been in the HOF. Bert had a better arm and was more Athletic;he also ran the offense as in " he was the leader and everybody knew it." Plus back then it was a much rougher NFL; it wasn't the powder puff league of today. The DB's could get away with a lot more then now , and you didn't get a 15 yard penalty flag for ruffing the passer if you just touched them. I mean you could whack them as you wish. Just go on youtube and watch how Mike Curtis of th Baltimore Colts hit. Thats how you could hit back then. Also go watch how Bert played too. That's just my two cents.

This. I love Flacco, but he couldn't carry Bert's jock. Bert not only had one of the best arms in NFL history, he was a supreme athlete. Anyone who says that Bert couldn't get out of the pocket never watched him play. He was a running threat as well as a great passer. He was the most accurate passer I have seen in nearly 50 years of watching the NFL, and his arm was better than Favre, Rogers, Elway, etc. Had it not been for a dirty body slam by Al "Bubba" Baker in an exhibition game, Bert would likely have gone on to a HOF career. He was that good.

And the argument that Bert was inferior to Joe because he didn't win in the playoffs is bogus. The Colts of that era did not have the talent that the Ravens have had over the last 7 years. Not even close.

**Beau Petard** · 03-10-2015, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by turftoe

The DB's could get away with a lot more then now , and you didn't get a 15 yard penalty flag for ruffing the passer if you just touched them. I mean you could whack them as you wish. Just go on youtube and watch how Mike Curtis of th Baltimore Colts hit. Thats how you could hit back then...

turf, I suspect you know that Curtis was a linebacker, but to be fair to his legacy, he was know to avoid discrimination by being an equal opportunity hitter!;)

**PalladinInNC** · 03-10-2015, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by AirFlacco

It was Jack Elway who didn't want John to play for Kush.There was a bitter
feud between them in college ball. I never knew what it was. Maybe Kush
stole some recruits from Jack or something but whatever it was it was personal.
Elway wasn't coming here and he said a million times it had nothing to do
with Baltimore but Elway was a golden surfer boy in California and wanted to
stay out there so Baltimore wasn't the cream of the crop for cities but once
Kush was named coach, Elway wasn't coming here.

He also played baseball and I think the Yankees drafted him or were going to but
he was a slap hitter at best with a strong arm in the outfield. He signed that
contract in Denver really fast so there was no way he was playing in the bushes
for the Yankees. Irsay said at least I got him out
of California and away from the beach. lol

He still wasn't coming here even after Colts drafted him he wasn't coming here
so Irsay paniced and traded him to Denver. I think he could have had 3
draft choices from OAK for him before the draft - high picks - I think.

Ernie Acorsi said Elway's pen was raised. He had caved in and was going to
sign when Irsay traded him w/o consulting his GM.

Elway wouldn't have saved the Colts, neither would Bert or Marino whom I
wanted in that draft. Marino would have put fans in the seats but Irsay
was going to move unless he got a new stadium which he never got.

The old timers are not saying Bert would have saved the franchise it's just that
at he had the purest arm Bellicheat ever saw and he might have been the best
ever in a different system and better coach and owner.

You think JOe would be doing this well if he played in the 70s in that circus and think
if Bert was playing here now?

Actually, I think it was the Raiders who made the offer but I think it was two 1sts and a young unknown defensive lineman named HOWIE LONG!

Yep, they could have had Howie Long!

**lowrider** · 03-10-2015, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Beau Petard

turf, I suspect you know that Curtis was a linebacker, but to be fair to his legacy, he was know to avoid discrimination by being an equal opportunity hitter!;)

That made me laugh. I remember that well. When that dude woke up he didn't know what city he was in, or who his momma was.:DeadHorse::)