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Thread: Ray Rice

  1. #31

    Re: Ray Rice



    Quote Originally Posted by Shambla View Post
    Went back and added the YPC. It sounds like we agree for the most part. My only point is that Rice is a Top 3 back who suffers a tremendous drop off against the Steelers MORE than the amount incurred by any other running back simply playing that defense. My solution would be to spread the ball to Leach (just a couple times) and Pierce more and/or call different styles of plays.
    I agree. In the most favorable view (for him), he performs basically like an average back against the Steelers, and he is viewed as, is paid as, and is a top 3-5 back. So that in and of itself is underperforming against that opponent. I think the Steelers definitely sell out to shut him down, which is something all teams should be trying to do if they aren't already. We are still a team that is most likely beaten by shutting down the run and hoping Flacco and the WRs, et al, cannot carry the extra weight.




  2. #32
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    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    I agree. In the most favorable view (for him), he performs basically like an average back against the Steelers, and he is viewed as, is paid as, and is a top 3-5 back. So that in and of itself is underperforming against that opponent. I think the Steelers definitely sell out to shut him down, which is something all teams should be trying to do if they aren't already. We are still a team that is most likely beaten by shutting down the run and hoping Flacco and the WRs, et al, cannot carry the extra weight.
    Plus they blanketed Torrey so they took out the best receiver. Sometimes the runs just aren't there but I did see Leach leading a couple of plays where if Rice had just followed him he couldn't gotten a few yards; he's more right than wrong so I'm not questioning his judgement overall




  3. #33

    Re: Ray Rice

    Ray just needs that little bit of space when he runs up the middle and then he's at his best because he can out-maneuver and out run most defenders once he gets going. Pitt was just closing the holes too fast for him to get any steam.




  4. #34
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    Re: Ray Rice

    It's because the Steelers literally plan their whole game plan around stopping Rice and penetrating our Oline, the Texans and the Patriots did this in the play offs too. There is a blue print for beating the Ravens, but it doesn't always quite come to light because Flacco has stepped up when these teams schemed against Rice, plus the defense more times than not turns up for the big teams.




  5. #35
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    Re: Ray Rice

    To say Ray Rice is overrated and overpaid is also very foolish. I'm not going to provide the over whelming stats that go in his favor, already done that plenty of times.




  6. #36
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    Re: Ray Rice

    KC Joyner who was on a livechat during yesterdays game was talking about how Rice's production has been dropping the last few games.

    Our O-line is what it is, and of course that is a big part of it, but he highlighted a metric he uses for his columns which measures effectiveness while having good blocking and it had dropped from 8+ yards on average during the first six games this year to around 6 the last few games. Joyner thought it had to do with a toe troubling Rice, but I haven't really heard anything about a toe injury this year.

    It's not a official stat, good blocking in this case is also subjective, but I thought I'd mention it.




  7. #37
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    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Ain't that the truth. Birk was completely demolished over and over again by Hampton. I haven't seen Hampton play that well in years. He was dominant.
    He did the exact same thing last year. So did Wilfork.
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  8. #38

    Re: Ray Rice

    Well, overpaid and overrated are very big stretches here considering he is already over 1,000 yards for the season once again. Let's not go here, because it's selling Rice short.

    That said, he did frustrate me a couple times last night with those inside cuts into traffic. There were two specific runs I can remember that if he just stayed to the outside or if he kept on his line he was heading on, he would have picked up multiple extra yards and even a 1st down or two. But on those two runs he cut back in and was met by someone that wouldn't have gotten to him otherwise. He ran right into defenders and it cost us yards.

    I don't know why Rice doesn't run to the outside much, but it's something he needs to start doing more of.




  9. #39

    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    Well, overpaid and overrated are very big stretches here considering he is already over 1,000 yards for the season once again. Let's not go here, because it's selling Rice short.

    That said, he did frustrate me a couple times last night with those inside cuts into traffic. There were two specific runs I can remember that if he just stayed to the outside or if he kept on his line he was heading on, he would have picked up multiple extra yards and even a 1st down or two. But on those two runs he cut back in and was met by someone that wouldn't have gotten to him otherwise. He ran right into defenders and it cost us yards.

    I don't know why Rice doesn't run to the outside much, but it's something he needs to start doing more of.


    Rice didn't have a terrible considering game considering the competition and the fact that the Steelers didn't have Pitta to worry about, but he still left some yards out there.




  10. #40
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    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by Shambla View Post
    Yes the Steelers have a good defense, but they've been giving up 3.8 YPC. Ray Rice essentially had half that. I wouldn't trade Rice for any other back but he just disappears in every Steelers game. Would have liked to see some Pierce action.
    Negative. Both games last year he had monster runs off the left side right at the start of each game. One was called back by a horrible holding call on Torrey Smith. He had an uncharacteristically bad game running the ball but he's been pretty good most of the time against the Stoolers.




  11. #41

    Re: Ray Rice

    Rice is a very capable back. The problem is he seems to be the only source of offense a lot of the time. So teams key on him, shut him down. Then Cam has to break out the crayons on the sideline and figure something else out besides hand the ball to Rice or throw the ball to Rice. It isn't as bad this year as it has been in the past. The Ravens are finally looking to get the ball into the hands of someone other than Rice at least some of the time. But when that Rice well runs dry it seems to affect the entire game plan.




  12. #42
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    Re: Ray Rice

    The point that the OP is trying to make is that, excuses are more often made for Rice after a bad game, than for Flacco following a bad game. I agree with the OP. He threw in some over the top frustration, but I agree with the sentiment.

    When Rice struggled in the playoffs the past two years, it was the offensive line's fault for not opening holes. Joe Flacco can have one bad game passing and, 'this passing offense hasn't proven that it can be a consistent threat, so let's get back to giving Rice the ball'. That's the mentality around here and around the city, and I think it's been this way for a few years.

    When some posters try to show that Rice is one of those home run backs who will more consistently gain 2 yards over and over, before striking one for fifteen, other posters have decided to lean on the YPC average as the backbone to their argument.

    When the passing offense gets into a rut, yes, there will be mention of dropped passes or poor protection, but there is no doubt that Flacco will shoulder the blame in the eyes of most Ravens fans. It does get frustrating after a while, because it's like nobody has jack to say when Rice has one of his 18 carry 45 yard games where they try to force feed him.

    Rice's numbers have not been great as of late. Meanwhile, Pierce hasn't had nearly as much trouble gaining yardage with the touches he has received. Why is that? Is the offensive line suddenly blocking better for him? We know how Rice is, but just as much as some posters claim we try to make Flacco out to be more than what he is, the same is done to Rice. Rice is a back who will consistently give you short runs, before breaking the big one. We all know how he gets when he gets frustrated. He stops following Leach/the play in general. Harbaugh's got on him about it. Leach has got on him about it. Wilbert Montgomery has got on him about it and even Ray Lewis has talked to him about it.

    Surprise, surprise, Leachisabeast, Benard Pierce needs more carries.
    Last edited by The Excellector; 11-20-2012 at 11:42 AM.
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  13. #43
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    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    The point that the OP is trying to make is that, excuses are more often made for Rice after a bad game, than for Flacco following a bad game. I agree with the OP. He threw in some over the top frustration, but I agree with the sentiment.

    When Rice struggled in the playoffs the past two years, it was the offensive line's fault for not opening holes. Joe Flacco can have one bad game passing and, 'this passing offense hasn't proven that it can be a consistent threat, so let's get back to giving Rice the ball'. That's the mentality around here and around the city, and I think it's been this way for a few years.

    When some posters try to show that Rice is one of those home run backs who will more consistently gain 2 yards over and over, before striking one for fifteen, other posters have decided to lean on the YPC average as the backbone to their argument.

    When the passing offense gets into a rut, yes, there will be mentioned of dropped passes or poor protection, but there is no doubt that Flacco will shoulder the blame in the eyes of most Ravens fans. It does get frustrating after a while, because it's like nobody has jack to say when Rice has one of his 18 carry 45 yard games where they try to force feed him.

    Rice's numbers have not been great as of late. Meanwhile, Pierce hasn't had nearly as much trouble gaining yardage with the touches he has received. Why is that? Is the offensive line suddenly blocking better for him? We know how Rice is, but just as much as some posters claim we try to make Flacco out to be more than what he is, the same is done to Rice. Rice is a back who will consistently give you short runs, before breaking the big one. We all know how he gets when he gets frustrated. He stops following Leach/the play in general. Harbaugh's got on him about it. Leach has got on him about it. Wilbert Montgomery has got on him about it and even Ray Lewis has talked to him about it.

    Surprise, surprise, Leachisabeast, Benard Pierce needs more carries.
    People are always making excuses for Flacco, whether that be blaming Cam Cameron or the receivers dropping balls (btw the receivers have barely dropped anything this year).




  14. #44

    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    The point that the OP is trying to make is that, excuses are more often made for Rice after a bad game, than for Flacco following a bad game. I agree with the OP. He threw in some over the top frustration, but I agree with the sentiment.

    When Rice struggled in the playoffs the past two years, it was the offensive line's fault for not opening holes. Joe Flacco can have one bad game passing and, 'this passing offense hasn't proven that it can be a consistent threat, so let's get back to giving Rice the ball'. That's the mentality around here and around the city, and I think it's been this way for a few years.

    When some posters try to show that Rice is one of those home run backs who will more consistently gain 2 yards over and over, before striking one for fifteen, other posters have decided to lean on the YPC average as the backbone to their argument.

    When the passing offense gets into a rut, yes, there will be mentioned of dropped passes or poor protection, but there is no doubt that Flacco will shoulder the blame in the eyes of most Ravens fans. It does get frustrating after a while, because it's like nobody has jack to say when Rice has one of his 18 carry 45 yard games where they try to force feed him.

    Rice's numbers have not been great as of late. Meanwhile, Pierce hasn't had nearly as much trouble gaining yardage with the touches he has received. Why is that? Is the offensive line suddenly blocking better for him? We know how Rice is, but just as much as some posters claim we try to make Flacco out to be more than what he is, the same is done to Rice. Rice is a back who will consistently give you short runs, before breaking the big one. We all know how he gets when he gets frustrated. He stops following Leach/the play in general. Harbaugh's got on him about it. Leach has got on him about it. Wilbert Montgomery has got on him about it and even Ray Lewis has talked to him about it.

    Surprise, surprise, Leachisabeast, Benard Pierce needs more carries.
    The problem with the general theme of this argument is that it is plainly easy to see when other teams sell out to stop Rice. That these teams also verbalize their goal makes it undeniable. No such focus is given to our passing game (except perhaps in taking Rice away from our passing game, i.e. dump-offs, screens).

    That said, Rice has left more yards on the field this year than last thusfar, imo. And Pierce is more dynamic and younger than our past back-ups (so should get more carries than they did, not less) I agree on those points.




  15. #45

    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    People are always making excuses for Flacco, whether that be blaming Cam Cameron or the receivers dropping balls (btw the receivers have barely dropped anything this year).
    I have to disagree with the "barely dropped anything this year" comment. Theyve improved, as has Flaccos completion percentage, but id hardly say there isnt still room for improvement in that area.
    -JAB




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