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Thread: Ray Rice

  1. #61
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    Re: Ray Rice



    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Which is a good start. They need to keep it up. They've tried some screens here and some slants there. They just need to work at it. Then, they've still had there moments, like in Cleveland. They're, 'Everyone is giving us heat for not giving Rice the ball, so let's pound him into the ground' and 'We have the lead, let's just run run pass and punt so we can get the heck out of here' moments.
    I'm not sure it's such a good start because it isn't working. All that throwing and the Ravens are just 16th in passing yards, 18th in passing TDs. They shouldn't be middle of the pack with that commitment to the pass. Continuing to pass doesn't equal improvement in the passing game with this god awful OC.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post

    Jacoby has one dropped pass, Boldin has only 1 too, Torrey has 4, that's one of the lowest drop rates in the league.
    Boldin has more than that. He had three passes hit his hands in the KC game alone.

    It depends on what your definition of a dropped pass is, but growing up I was always taught that if it hits your hands, you should catch it. So, to me, when a pass hits a player in both hands and they dont catch it, that constitutes a dropped pass. In fact, Boldin had a dropped pass against the Steelers and Jacoby had one against Oakland that resulted in an interception by Michael Huff.

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post

    I'm not sure it's such a good start because it isn't working. All that throwing and the Ravens are just 16th in passing yards, 18th in passing TDs. They shouldn't be middle of the pack with that commitment to the pass. Continuing to pass doesn't equal improvement in the passing game with this god awful OC.
    Agreed.

    Square peg/Round hole.

    Passing more doesnt equal better passing.

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  4. #64

    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Boldin has more than that. He had three passes hit his hands in the KC game alone.

    It depends on what your definition of a dropped pass is, but growing up I was always taught that if it hits your hands, you should catch it. So, to me, when a pass hits a player in both hands and they dont catch it, that constitutes a dropped pass. In fact, Boldin had a dropped pass against the Steelers and Jacoby had one against Oakland that resulted in an interception by Michael Huff.

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    All true.

    But this (i.e. what counts as a drop) is an irrelevant distinction for the purposes of the discussion unless you are going to try to argue that our receivers drop more passes that do not quite pass the dropped-pass threshold (used by the statisticians) than do other teams' receivers.

    Quibbling over the threshold is meaningless as long as the same threshold is being applied across the league (by the statistician). All that matters, for the purposes of the discussion, is our standing relative to other teams (the ranking not the absolute number of drops). If you want to increase the official drop stat for us by 25%, then you are going to be increasing it for all teams by 25%. No matter how you slice it, drops are hurting us less than the average team (this year, so far).

    Even our poor drops rank lasy year was nowhere near as bad as people liked to claim. It wasn't worst, let alone worst by far. In fact 5-6 less drops on the year and we move to slightly above average last year.

    I guess what I am saying is that all teams suffer from drops.

    http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/t...e=NFL&rank=232




  5. #65
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    Re: Ray Rice

    I'm not saying that dropped passes don't impact every team. Of course they do. In fact, I actually think (from what I've seen) that drops in general have gone down significantly from last year.

    I still think that any one receiver having games or stretches of games with multiple dropped passes is unacceptable though. Who knows how the KC game would have turned out, offensively, had there not been so many dropped passes early on. We cannot effectively describe how debilitating dropped passes are to a drive and to the offense's morale.
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  6. #66

    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I'm not saying that dropped passes don't impact every team. Of course they do. In fact, I actually think (from what I've seen) that drops in general have gone down significantly from last year.

    I still think that any one receiver having games or stretches of games with multiple dropped passes is unacceptable though. Who knows how the KC game would have turned out, offensively, had there not been so many dropped passes early on. We cannot effectively describe how debilitating dropped passes are to a drive and to the offense's morale.
    I agree drops hurt our offense. But in terms of a "why are the Ravens struggling more than others on offense" discussion, drops shouldn't be considered.




  7. #67

    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    I agree drops hurt our offense. But in terms of a "why are the Ravens struggling more than others on offense" discussion, drops shouldn't be considered.
    I agree with what youre saying but at the same time, theres nothing saying that what you point out as an argument against couldnt be an argument for either. Is it likely that our WRs have more passes than the rest of league fall outside the parameters set for a drop? probably not, but there isnt anything saying they couldnt be an outlier either. It could have a lot to do with our system, which not many teams run, and the lack of separation our WRs get. Balls hitting hands but not being able to be corralled is something we commonly see on this team (and us fans always complain about) and imo, not as much on others (which is why its so aggravating). whether thats definitive or not is another story.
    -JAB




  8. #68

    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I agree with what youre saying but at the same time, theres nothing saying that what you point out as an argument against couldnt be an argument for either. Is it likely that our WRs have more passes than the rest of league fall outside the parameters set for a drop? probably not, but there isnt anything saying they couldnt be an outlier either. It could have a lot to do with our system, which not many teams run, and the lack of separation our WRs get. Balls hitting hands but not being able to be corralled is something we commonly see on this team (and us fans always complain about) and imo, not as much on others (which is why its so aggravating). whether thats definitive or not is another story.
    I can't rule out the possibility that there is a systematic reason why we would have more passes dropped that barely fall outside the parameters used by statisticians in tracking the stat (the most probable would be that Flacco is less accurate than an average QB, but I think that is a stretch to argue), but I feel comfortable employing Occam's Razor here.

    I also don't necessarily agree with your perception that we drop more balls than other teams based on watching other teams (last year maybe but even then it wasn't a stark difference). I see a ton of drops watching other games. Sure, they are primarily noticeable on bad teams and with bad WRs, but even the great teams suffer from them. It is just that when you drop a 10 yard pass on 2nd and 8 and then complete a 10 yard pass on 3rd and 8, no one remembers the drop. If you drop a 10 yard pass on 2nd and 8, then go deep and miss on 3rd and 8 and punt, then everyone says "man that dropped killed us."




  9. #69

    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    I can't rule out the possibility that there is a systematic reason why we would have more passes dropped that barely fall outside the parameters used by statisticians in tracking the stat (the most probable would be that Flacco is less accurate than an average QB, but I think that is a stretch to argue), but I feel comfortable employing Occam's Razor here.

    I also don't necessarily agree with your perception that we drop more balls than other teams based on watching other teams (last year maybe but even then it wasn't a stark difference). I see a ton of drops watching other games. Sure, they are primarily noticeable on bad teams and with bad WRs, but even the great teams suffer from them. It is just that when you drop a 10 yard pass on 2nd and 8 and then complete a 10 yard pass on 3rd and 8, no one remembers the drop. If you drop a 10 yard pass on 2nd and 8, then go deep and miss on 3rd and 8 and punt, then everyone says "man that dropped killed us."
    Like ive said earlier, im not really arguing that were more average this year in that category, but i do see impacts based on our system thats not conducive for helping WRs get separation, which will impact ability to catch a ball.
    -JAB




  10. #70
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    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    I'm not sure it's such a good start because it isn't working. All that throwing and the Ravens are just 16th in passing yards, 18th in passing TDs. They shouldn't be middle of the pack with that commitment to the pass. Continuing to pass doesn't equal improvement in the passing game with this god awful OC.
    We always say it's the points that matter and Ravens are 7th in offensive points scored. Not bad considering they've had a couple of really low scoring games.

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...true&Submit=Go




  11. #71

    Re: Ray Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    I'm not sure it's such a good start because it isn't working. All that throwing and the Ravens are just 16th in passing yards, 18th in passing TDs. They shouldn't be middle of the pack with that commitment to the pass. Continuing to pass doesn't equal improvement in the passing game with this god awful OC.
    The Ravens are 18th in pass attempts (below league average), so ranking 16th in passing yards (above league average) and 18th in passing TDs is unsurprising. I don't see the "commitment to the pass" that you seem to be suggesting. Yes, they have more pass attempts than rush attempts, but that's the modern NFL, and the Ravens are certainly not MORE committed to the pass than your average team.

    But I do agree with you that there is very little evidence that Cam Cameron can coordinate a successful passing offense. The reason why the Ravens are so successful in the passing game at home is because Cam Cameron is not controlling the offense at home; Flacco is. When Cam gets the reins back on the road they return to the Ravens passing game of old, a la Jacksonville and Seattle last year.




  12. #72

    Re: Ray Rice

    We pass the ball 12th most often. And ahead of us are several teams that pass more purely because they are almost always behind. There are two teams with winning records that pass more than we do: Atlanta and Indy. There are two teams with .500 records that pass more than we do. There are 7 teams with losing records that pass more than we do.

    http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

    In terms of Yards per pass attempt, we rank tied-14th with Oakland. There are 8 teams with winning records, 3 teams with .500 records, and 2 teams with losing records ahead of us.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/te...PerPassAttempt




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