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  1. #31
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    Re: Ravens closing in on Division record



    Quote Originally Posted by Mr OC View Post
    Interesting opinions; obviously there is no way to prove or disprove. It's also possible that Harbaugh has done a good job getting the talent to play as a team, and another coach may not have gotten the Ravens as far. Again, no way to prove one way or another.

    There will always be I suppose a group of fans that think the coach is holding the team back, while another group feels that the coach is putting them in the best position to win. Makes for interesting conversation for sure.
    Agreed, and I know I am in the minority but that is fine.




  2. #32
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    Re: Ravens closing in on Division record

    A lot of interesting comments in this thread.

    Not to veer too far OT, but as I was reading the thread about Ditka's minor stroke, I spotted this link in one of the margins. I thought it was somewhat interesting in light of the OP's original question, and didn't want to start a whole different thread.

    Title of the linked article is "The Worst Head Coach in Every NFL Team's History". (Can you guess who for the Ravens???)




  3. #33
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    Re: Ravens closing in on Division record

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Actually, no. If you READ the first words of the OP's post it says, "I still don't understand why some people want Harbaugh gone(?)"

    Meaning myself and a few others are answering his question about why we do not like John Harbaugh as head coach. I didn't start a thread to state my position, I merely VOICE my opinion when the question or reasons for continued failure to win a championship arise.

    I am not alone in my opinion that John hasn't done enough, Super Bowl, MVP Steve Young agrees that the Ravens have had more talent on the field than most of the NFL and have done the least with it. Do you think this team is always going to have that much talent?

    Then the apologist come along, and yes I agree we were a dropped pass from the Super Bowl, but by that same token, we should have been smashing the Patriots as we were out playing them the whole game, but we missed key strategic points that other head coaches would have feasted on.

    Having hindsight into who would have been coach is pointless because I never would have fired Billick, he was a QB away from another Super Bowl victory. Spare me the crucifixtion of Brian Billick, I am merely stating an answer to Garret and Rex.

    So Timmyonfleet, read the whole ongoing discussion before you presume all us 'guys' complain to complain, were that the case I would start my own thread. And pray tell, when we have no trophy in 5 years, is it then permissable to have the opinion that John Harbaugh is an underachiever? Give me a break.
    And if Harbaugh had big Jen, Arraon Rogers, or Tom Bady, Harbaugh could have had at least two rings by now.




  4. #34
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    Re: Ravens closing in on Division record

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    And if Harbaugh had big Jen, Arraon Rogers, or Tom Bady, Harbaugh could have had at least two rings by now.
    Oh thats Horseshit... They would still Have CAM's playbook




  5. #35
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    Re: Ravens closing in on Division record

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensQB View Post
    Oh thats Horseshit... They would still Have CAM's playbook
    I agree with this. They used to say that the only person able to hold Michael Jordan under 20 points was Dean Smith. I counter that with, the only coach who could throttle those quarterbacks is Cam Cameron.




  6. #36
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    Re: Ravens closing in on Division record

    This is a very impressive record, and one of a few that John Harbaugh has this team in position for. This could be their second consecutive season sweep of the division. This could also be their third consecutive 12 win season. They would be creeping into Indianapolis territory.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  7. #37
    I refuse to believe that Harbs is an underachiever after having read the OP's original link. You could pick any couple of games from some of the best HC in history and find a mistake here or there. Bottom line is he wins year in and year out. I'm sorry but perennial playoff teams do not have underacheivers as coaches. Statement is moronic. He didn't drop the pass or miss the FG. He helped get us to that point 2x in 4 years, I mean you can't be serious.




  8. #38
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    Re: Ravens closing in on Division record

    Quote Originally Posted by timmyonfleet View Post
    I refuse to believe that Harbs is an underachiever after having read the OP's original link. You could pick any couple of games from some of the best HC in history and find a mistake here or there. Bottom line is he wins year in and year out. I'm sorry but perennial playoff teams do not have underacheivers as coaches. Statement is moronic. He didn't drop the pass or miss the FG. He helped get us to that point 2x in 4 years, I mean you can't be serious.
    Don't believe, I don't care. I am not trying to convince you, I am stating my position why he has done the least with the most talent. And historically great coaches are judged by Super Bowls. Chuck Knox, a lot of people will go "who?" He won a lot of games back in the day, but only people who follow football closely remember him. Marty Shottenhiemer and the soon to be fired Andy Reid have the underachiever moniker as well, great coaches, but not good enough to get over the hump... So I see the same in Harbaugh, especially with Cam Cameron lingering.

    Again, the Patriot game should have never been that close and he should have called a time out to set up the kicker, but he blew it.

    But again, when asked why I feel this way, I state my position, you are entitled to your opinion as I am mine.




  9. #39

    Re: Ravens closing in on Division record

    Many (most) of those "great" coaches did not win their first Super Bowl (championship) until well after their first 4 campaigns.

    It is all speculation. Could another coach have won a SB or 2 over the last 4 years? Maybe. But the alternative could also be true, that another man may not have gotten the Ravens to the playoffs as much.

    Regarding Billick. He was a very good coach. And he was the perfect man for the job when he got here. But (as he himself admits), he lost his voice with the team towards the end of his tenure. I think a change was needed and I do not think he would have gotten the productivity out of the team in 2008 and beyond that Harbaugh was able to achieve.

    Lastly, I am glad that ranking of worst coaches termed their labeling of Marchibroda as "unfair". Notwithstanding the opinion of the Cleveland fans, the team that Ted was asked to coached was one of the worst in the league. Moreover, they were so strapped by the salary cap (they couldn't even afford a taxi squad), that the only way they could really build the team in those first 3 years was via the draft. Ted really didn't have a chance. Again, I think Billick was the right man for the job in 1999, and Ted had to go, but he was not a "bad" coach and the Ravens have really been blessed with not having their own Rich Kotite in their first 17 seasons.




  10. #40
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    Re: Ravens closing in on Division record

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensQB View Post
    Oh thats Horseshit... They would still Have CAM's playbook
    Stop living in denial. Flacco is just not as good as the guys I listed, and you can't just blame Cam for it all. Facts are facts.




  11. #41
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    Re: Ravens closing in on Division record

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensQB View Post
    Oh thats Horseshit... They would still Have CAM's playbook
    Cam had Brees and couldn't get to a Super Bowl. Not too long after Brees gets away from Cam he's the Super Bowl MVP
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  12. #42

    Re: Ravens closing in on Division record

    Wow. I don't think Harbaugh is a bad head coach at all. He is a little too Rah-Rah at times, and a bit tight lipped in his press conferences, but I really can't think of any HC I'd rather have over him. Now if he would just hire a real OC and fire his drunken OL coach....




  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post
    Now if he would just hire a real OC and fire his drunken OL coach....
    Those are issues that I hope get resolved this offseason. Cam needs to move on. Isn't his contract up?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




  14. #44

    Re: Ravens closing in on Division record

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Cam had Brees and couldn't get to a Super Bowl. Not too long after Brees gets away from Cam he's the Super Bowl MVP
    I constantly hear this on this board, and it's a fallacious argument. It doesn't mean anything, unless you assume that a) Flacco and Brees have the same skill set, b) Flacco's receivers/OL/TEs/RBs have the same capabilities and limitations that Brees' had in SD, c) the opponents that Brees faced with Cam in SD were basically the same as the opponents Flacco's faced with Cam in Bmore, and going forward, d) that a simple change in OC will somehow unlock the inner Superman in Flacco. Actually, which brings me to e) that there actually is an inner Superman in Flacco waiting to be unlocked.

    I don't see a valid basis for any of those assumptions, with the possible exception of e, since Flacco is lights out at M&T. However, I don't see what basis there is for thinking Flacco's road struggles are Cam's fault and Cam's fault only.

    I hope Cam goes, just so that I don't have to keep reading every single thread on every single Ravens board turn into a Ravens-OC bashing fest. However, y'all should be careful what you wish for...




  15. #45
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    Re: Ravens closing in on Division record

    mike--
    I can't say that Cameron is "the" problem or not, but I have a sense that he is "part" of the problem, that being that the offense is not as consistent as I'd like to see it AND that it seems like there are issues with in-game adjustments to opponents' defensive tactics.

    Plus, I think your comparison points are well-taken, but I don't think GOTA's implication is as fallacious as you feel it is, since there are never any sets of circumstances as precise as you mention when comparing two (or more) QBs. I don't think Cameron's presence and influence with the success of Brees, or Flacco, is as easy as an "if-then", but it's very likely that it's a factor.




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