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  1. #31

    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?



    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    For example, his former commanding officer still believes to this day he shot someone in the back and does not deserve the medals he received.
    He also did not receive the award for that. read the article again. He shot a guy running away with a rocket launcher but the medal was not for that incident but his actions in whole. Thats not even pointing out that hes publicly supported Kerry's medal as late as 2003. 2004, presidential candidate, he changed his story.

    The official citations show Kerry was not awarded the Silver Star "for simply pursuing and dispatching" the Viet Cong. In fact, the killing is not even mentioned in two of the three versions of the official citation (see "supporting documents" at right.) The citations - based on what Elliott wrote up at the time - dwell mostly on Kerry's decision to attack rather than flee from two ambushes, including one in which he led a landing party.
    if he got the award for attacking instead of fleaing, shooting a guy would be considered attacking, no? and its funny that its basically saying others did flea which is why he stood out for his actions. I dont blame Elliot much, he wasnt there and obviously depending on who you listen to it must be somewhat convincing either way, apparently. I dont like the thought of questioning any Soldiers military record, but when theres a clear gray area i shouldn't be expected to go with the "right's" version or be labeled an "uninformed libby".
    Last edited by JAB1985; 11-14-2012 at 03:36 PM.
    -JAB




  2. #32
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    You didn't read Gardner's comments above, an eye witness. Kerry threatened the entire crew. When asked if he did he said he
    couldn't remember. Of course not.

    Then there was the officer who said he didn't follow the rules of engagement when he killed the child and his father.
    It's proven he falsified reports. He only served 4 months when everyone else did a year and most officers did more
    than one tour.

    You haven't provided any witnesses to the contrary. You can only use a fact check link which is just as opinionated as
    the next guy while I'm looking at pics of his in Hanoi's museum honoring him as a fellow commie. Continue to be blind
    to the situation.


    Geesh.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 11-14-2012 at 12:51 PM.




  3. #33

    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    You didn't read Gardner's comments above, an eye witness. Kerry threatened the entire crew. When asked if he did he said he
    couldn't remember. Of course not.
    Non-credible and has been caught in numerous lies. Article
    he has admitted that he -- just like the rest of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth claiming that Kerry is lying about his medals -- was not present for the incidents leading to Kerry's receipt of any medals or any of Kerry's three Purple Hearts.
    He cant keep his own lies straight as numerous times, hes said something only to contradict it later in the same interview. The only SVBT memer that was present for any of Kerrys medals, supports him (see below).

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    He only served 4 months when everyone else did a year and most officers did more than one tour.
    He served time on the USS Gridley prior to his time served in Vietnam, which did account for. He requested duty in Vietnam during a time people were draft dodging. He only commanded for 4 months a swift boat, but his service was a full tour plus.

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    You haven't provided any witnesses to the contrary.
    Bill Rassaman (the guy he saved for his silver star, also registered republican FWIW), Fred Short (a crew member of Kerrys boat), Del Sandusky (2nd in command), Larry Clayton Lee (SBVT member who was the only member that was there that day) as well as numerous others you choose to ignore. See the first quote and realize, none of the claims they have made against his medals are based on eye witness claims. Even the Rice pile, which was friendly fire, isnt refuted. They were burning them so the Viet Cong didnt have them. Purple hearts were handed out for friendly fire. His Service ended early, not because "the swifties hated him" or "threatened to kill him", but because of our own policies that any serviceman thats been injured 3 times can be reassigned. He could have stayed, but chose not to. After 3 injuries in 4 months, after volunteering for it in the first place when others chose to run away, i think he earned the right to decide. you can make an argument he should have stayed maybe, but not many would have. "million dollar wound" isnt a phrase because people were gung-ho about being there.

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    You can only use a fact check link which is just as opinionated as the next guy while I'm looking at pics of his in Hanoi's museum honoring him as a fellow commie. Continue to be blind to the situation.
    the fact check link is a convenient source that takes multiple sources and puts them into a timeline with quotes. Its not biased, and even concludes, more than likely rightfully, that the matter isnt definitive either way.

    The Hanoi Picture is real, but misused by propaganda websites like the ones you posted, that claim its honoring him as a communist. No, its a picture that says he came there with a delegation to search for what happened to POWs and MIAs. nothing more, nothing less.

    Theres what I call "propaganda" websites for both sides, which are really part of the problem in this country. as well as pundits that simply lie and stretch truth to fit whatever their agenda is. Not much different than politicians. If you choose to believe it, so be it, but im not a supporter of either, just the truth that typically lies in between.
    -JAB




  4. #34

    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    right wing goons still believe swift boat garbage??

    the quintessential definition of a smear campaign and you still believe it 8 years later? talk about hook, line, and sinker...

    i'll believe the words of the servicemen who actually served w/ kerry




  5. #35
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Non-credible and has been caught in numerous lies. Article

    He cant keep his own lies straight as numerous times, hes said something only to contradict it later in the same interview. The only SVBT memer that was present for any of Kerrys medals, supports him (see below).


    He served time on the USS Gridley prior to his time served in Vietnam, which did account for. He requested duty in Vietnam during a time people were draft dodging. He only commanded for 4 months a swift boat, but his service was a full tour plus.



    Bill Rassaman (the guy he saved for his silver star, also registered republican FWIW), Fred Short (a crew member of Kerrys boat), Del Sandusky (2nd in command), Larry Clayton Lee (SBVT member who was the only member that was there that day) as well as numerous others you choose to ignore. See the first quote and realize, none of the claims they have made against his medals are based on eye witness claims. Even the Rice pile, which was friendly fire, isnt refuted. They were burning them so the Viet Cong didnt have them. Purple hearts were handed out for friendly fire. His Service ended early, not because "the swifties hated him" or "threatened to kill him", but because of our own policies that any serviceman thats been injured 3 times can be reassigned. He could have stayed, but chose not to. After 3 injuries in 4 months, after volunteering for it in the first place when others chose to run away, i think he earned the right to decide. you can make an argument he should have stayed maybe, but not many would have. "million dollar wound" isnt a phrase because people were gung-ho about being there.



    the fact check link is a convenient source that takes multiple sources and puts them into a timeline with quotes. Its not biased, and even concludes, more than likely rightfully, that the matter isnt definitive either way.

    The Hanoi Picture is real, but misused by propaganda websites like the ones you posted, that claim its honoring him as a communist. No, its a picture that says he came there with a delegation to search for what happened to POWs and MIAs. nothing more, nothing less.

    Theres what I call "propaganda" websites for both sides, which are really part of the problem in this country. as well as pundits that simply lie and stretch truth to fit whatever their agenda is. Not much different than politicians. If you choose to believe it, so be it, but im not a supporter of either, just the truth that typically lies in between.

    Like HR said, you gotta prove your stuff. You don't even believe eye witness reports.You say they're lies but don't
    believe it. Fellow officers have testified vs Kerry but you know so much more than they. Even the Globe suppressed its own evidence they found that Kerry was guilty of killing the kid in the back.

    It's a fact that he headed the VEts vs the War. It's a fact that he met with their delegates at the peace treaty and you
    can't prove otherwise.

    We've shown our proof from eye witnesses who have testified and pics of the actual photos of him in their museum.

    Keep dreaming.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 11-14-2012 at 06:17 PM.




  6. #36

    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Like HR said, you gotta prove your stuff. You don't even believe eye witness reports.You say they're lies but don't
    believe it. Fellow officers have testified vs Kerry but you know so much more than they. Even the Globe suppressed its own evidence they found that Kerry was guilty of killing the kid in the back.

    It's a fact that he headed the VEts vs the War. It's a fact that he met with their delegates at the peace treaty and you
    can't prove otherwise.

    We've shown our proof from eye witnesses who have testified and pics of the actual photos of him in their museum.

    Keep dreaming.
    Apparently you dont believe eye witness reports. I gave you just as many or more that refute their and your claims. Seeing as none of them were present and have said as much, who are your eye witnesses? Which youre not only choose not to believe but to not even acknowledge i gave them. Not to mention the article that quotes his commanding officer as supporting his silver star all the way up until 2003, but conviently flopped when he ran for president.

    Nobody is refuting that his picture is in a museum or that he was part of the group that went over there to meet with delegates, which was to find out what happened to pows and mias. Whats wrong with that?

    We have museums with pictures of hitler in them... We must be nazis since we clearly honor him.

    I cant wrap my head around if you actually believe this non sense or if youre just trying to get a rise out of people.
    -JAB




  7. #37
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    Trap, I never told anyone they had the prove their stuff.

    As JAB points out, this is still a relatively unsettled debate so please do not mischaracterize what I was saying.

    I do not share you're die hard allegiance to everything GOP and this matter is included.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  8. #38
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Sorry HR, I didn't mean to mis-represent you but I was referring
    to this quote plus your comments on media matters.


    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Nothing that Corsi wrote has ever been dis-proven so you're going to need to back this up, JAB.
    And he still hasn't using less than proven internet links.

    I was drafted during that war when most of my senior class joined the Guard to beat the draft. Didn't go over as I said many times
    but I showed up. After being trained to kill commies, I ended up
    at APG in supplies handing stuff out. Years later I went back to the Ordnance Center and School as a civilian in-and out-processing allied soldiers that were trained on our latest tanks and vehicles. I was invited to visit returning students in Greece, Turkey, Egypt and Asia. The commendation in my file reads: FOR OUTSTANDING SUPPORT FOR INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS. YOUR HARD WORK WILL BE FELT WORLD WIDE. 1990-1991.

    Then I was promoted to the Edgewood Area.

    I guarantee you my work as a civilian for the Army for 27 years was
    far more important like when our agency sent a sister unit to
    Bagdad to test the drinking water to make it safe before the rest of the army got there. They needed my reports that were filed from there decades ago. I just supervised automating millions of them and at the time was the only one who could call them up in a short time so I was with them. I didn't carry any weapons as a civilian
    but two body guards were assigned to me at all times in Iraq.

    No one knew we were in the neighborhood.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 11-15-2012 at 10:32 AM.




  9. #39
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Back to that unsettled Kerry debate HR. At least one lie was settled by Kerry himself. If all the swifties lied, they weren't the only ones.

    Kerry admitted to lying about being in Cambodia. He has admitted that the Cambodia story was a lie. How in the world can you be 15,000 miles away from home on Christmas Eve and not know exactly where you were?? He was on the river a total of 4 months and one of those 120 days was Christmas Eve. In 1968 was there a bigger day of the year than Christmas Eve and you were a scared and lonely boy in a war and now you say your "seared" memory of was not sure where you were??

    Not to mention, no US patrol boat or craft was ordered into
    Cambodia when he said he was there.

    The breadth of this lie cannot be measured!!!


    The swifties believed so much in what they said and were doing that they kept him from being president. That many cant be wrong including a retired rear Admiral who co-founded their group plus a medal of honor winner.

    As for those records you mentioned, the ones Kerry filed were
    falsified as officers have suggested so if you want to go in and
    try to find dirt on him, officially, you cant.

    It's still a fact he only served 4 months while most everyone
    served a year, that survived. Many officers if not most served
    two tours of duty.

    "Swift-Boating" does not equal smearing. Swift-Boating means exposing hard truths about corrupt Democrats which has the libbies freaking out.

    John Kerry was a combat veteran. So was Benedict Arnold.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 11-15-2012 at 10:35 AM.




  10. #40
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    The basis of Trap's arguement is Kerry service record is complete BS. Any official record to the contrary is obiviously falsified.

    This line of reasoning lets one side make any points its wants, while at the same time painting the other side as liars who falsify records.

    Sorry but enough people who actually served with Kerry and THE DOD OFFICIAL RECORD support that Kerry served his country honorable and was wounded in battle.

    I'm sure if there's one or two people who served with me that probably don't think to highly of me. Everybody has old co workers and/or bosses that they had bad relations with. If someone who served with me were to tell you Dade never really went to Iraq and my official record was falsified, would you believe them?




  11. #41

    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Sorry HR, I didn't mean to mis-represent you but I was referring
    to this quote plus your comments on media matters.

    And he still hasn't using less than proven internet links.
    Theres really nothing more to say on it. Ive given you evidence, very strong evidence at that and you simply choose to ignore it. you keep saying you have eye witnesses, but you dont. You have one guy that served with him AFTER he received his awards for a short time and took over a boat of the same people that SUPPORT Kerrys claims.

    I cant believe the guy that links "the anit-liberal zone" and "drudge report" is saying a fact checking website is the poor source of information. Or i guess maybe it does make sense. Its actually a pretty good source of information, it just might not go with what you want to believe all the time. That should tell you something, mostly that being a blind follower of either side isnt a good thing.
    -JAB




  12. #42
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I cant believe the guy that links "the anit-liberal zone" and "drudge report" is saying a fact checking website is the poor source of information. Or i guess maybe it does make sense. Its actually a pretty good source of information, it just might not go with what you want to believe all the time. That should tell you something, mostly that being a blind follower of either side isnt a good thing.
    I'm over the whole Kerry swiftboating argument (not that I got into it much to begin with) I just want to ask a question and make a point.

    Q: What's wrong with the Drudge report? All they do is link to other websites.

    Point: Simply because it's called a fact checking website does not make it so. Back in the 2008 election, I saw the head guy on tv saying "everyone has their bias' but we try to do a good job of keeping that out of the way" (paraphrasing). I agree they do a better than average job, but sometimes you need to factcheck the factcheckers.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  13. #43

    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I'm over the whole Kerry swiftboating argument (not that I got into it much to begin with) I just want to ask a question and make a point.

    Q: What's wrong with the Drudge report? All they do is link to other websites.

    Point: Simply because it's called a fact checking website does not make it so. Back in the 2008 election, I saw the head guy on tv saying "everyone has their bias' but we try to do a good job of keeping that out of the way" (paraphrasing). I agree they do a better than average job, but sometimes you need to factcheck the factcheckers.
    Drudge report isnt the worst, honestly im not super familiar with it. I think it links to some biased sites and promotes that kind of reporting which i dont support. Its the users choice but when you link to a good webiste and then a crappy one right next to it, i feel it loses some of its usefulness. Youll have people that take both as credible.

    fact checking isnt bias, but there are bias fact checkers. If its "he said/did this" and its a direct answer yes or no there really little room for opinion to even be inserted. Sites like politifact that have a gray area. Typically they give the benefit of the doubt but when something is half true/ half false then i think theyre basically saying its on yiu to decide at that point. At the end of the day if youre going to throw out numbers/statements/accusations you should be able to have them checked and be truthful or otherwise its just misleading. Both sides are guilty of it and frankly id rather vote for the truth thats being said than just voting for what i wish to be true.
    -JAB




  14. #44
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Whenever I hear people fault Drudge I kind of laugh. Drudge has not reported on anything for years.

    And he will link to Breitbart just as quickly as he will to Huffington Post.
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  15. #45
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    Re: Secretary of Defense Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    The basis of Trap's arguement is Kerry service record is complete BS. Any official record to the contrary is obiviously falsified.

    This line of reasoning lets one side make any points its wants, while at the same time painting the other side as liars who falsify records.

    Sorry but enough people who actually served with Kerry and THE DOD OFFICIAL RECORD support that Kerry served his country honorable and was wounded in battle.

    I'm sure if there's one or two people who served with me that probably don't think to highly of me. Everybody has old co workers and/or bosses that they had bad relations with. If someone who served with me were to tell you Dade never really went to Iraq and my official record was falsified, would you believe them?
    That BS came from officers who knew Kerry so how would you
    know and if you threatened your entire unit the entire group
    wouldn't like you either. Kerry did't even deny it when asked. Just
    said he couldn't remember.

    Just try it sometime. You libbies just can't see the light.




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