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Thread: Guns...
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Re: Guns...
target shooting is not scenario based. unless that target is surrounded by civilians in some scenarios and you have to move or simply cannot take a shot its not a scenario. its dead straight, controlled environment that says you can shoot a non-moving target from a set distance. nothing else. thats not what im talking about as far as actual training that would allow one to say they were trained for that scenario. based on the last part of my previous post that i added, theres not even a 70% in some cases just simply firing a shot (granted its from wiki).
You wouldn't ask a golfer to practice putting anywhere else put a putting green so I don't see why you have to ask someone to train "scenario based" when no two scenarios are never the same. When it comes time to shoot, you want to revert back to the fundamentals, not a laundry list of of other "stuff". That's precisely whey the military / law enforcement trains on targets. Now anyone can take advanced classes (handgun, AR-15, etc), all through the NRA, that's more scenario based but again, unless you master the fundamentals, it's meaningless to you.
second, i agree basics should be handled first but i dont think its adequate to say that becasue they can handle the basics they are now qualified to handle such a scenario that involves other civilians. to the greater point that even if they do injure a bystander they shouldnt be trialed for it as if it was their duty.
No. I am saying civilian training / requirements to act are different than that of a cop, thus the outcome if affected by it. A cop has to engage an active shooter. A civilian does not. A cop in an active shooter scenario has a duty to stop the threat. A CHL Carrier does not. Since a cop has a duty to protect himself AND those around him, he / she is going to be more inclined to take a shot / shots. Me, as a CHL holder, is not going to go on the offensive unless I absolutely have to and / or if I feel comfortable doing so. You keep using Aurora as the standard, yet cops and CHL holders are FAR more likely to use their weapons is a vast amount of other, more realistic scenarios. Aurora is the extreme outlier here.
And it's been my experience civilians are generally far better shots than your average beat cop. Most cops only have to qualify once a year with their weapon and many times, that's the only time they fire said weapon. SWAT and QRT teams are different, but that's a small percentage of police on the streets.
For one, you're assuming I am going to take the offensive which I would not unless I had to.
But lets suppose I did decide I needed to stand up and take a shot. It goes back to training. I am trained as a CHL holder to survey the area BEHIND the shooter. It's called haveing a clear background. If there's a chance I can hit someone, I don't take the shot. Now, some reports have said his AR-15 jammed. I have an advantage than most CHL holders in that I know exactly what an AR-15 sounds like when it jams, is out of ammo, etc. thanks to my military time and the fact I own an AR-15. Once I heard that sound and I had a clear background, I am putting 15 rounds of 9mm right at his chest without hesitation. But again, Aurora is the extreme fringe example. The more likely scenario is I am at a gas station and grabbing something to drink when some nut comes in to hold up the place. Or, I am walking down the street and someone tries to mug me.
second i think again your using yourself as the CHL holder, which is fine, but not everyone that has CHL, is a military trained responsible gun owner. Youre saying when you stand up because his gun locked, theres nobody else around, but again, its dark, smokey, shadow figure, how do you know its not somebody trying to get away? chances are hes not just standing there like a target, right? I also dont disagree that these public massacres are not likely scenarios. which is why i dont think civilians are properly prepared to handle such. They should be trained for gas stations and or a street scenario at night. all places where other civilians could be around. It may be hard for you to step outside because in your shoes, you already are trained for such a thing as ex military. a more general CHL im not sure makes the same judgements as yourself. theyd like to think they would but its not always going to happen that way.
Point is, there's never going to be the perfect example as to when you pull the gun and pull the trigger but you seem to want to strive for one.-JAB
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01-24-2013, 03:10 PM #134Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: Guns...
Agree to disagree. I suggest you do more shooting to fully understand the nuances.
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01-25-2013, 10:37 AM #135Legendary RSR Poster
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One thing I'm happy about is that Feinsteins legislation is being pushed right away and not after the midterm elections.
She definitely doesn't have the votes in the House and she may not even have them in the Senate. Harry Reid is in a tough spot himself, having been rather pro gun himself for years, including not favoring the AWB renewal.
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01-26-2013, 10:36 AM #137Legendary RSR Poster
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Not sure. Sounds like soon ...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_2541743.html
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02-06-2013, 01:40 PM #138
Re: Guns...
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02-06-2013, 06:09 PM #140
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02-06-2013, 07:44 PM #141Legendary RSR Poster
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02-07-2013, 11:56 AM #142
Re: Guns...
thanks again.
prior to shooting it, it's almost indistinguishable from my Gen 3.
Monday we will see if there is a recoil difference that is noticeable, but it seems she likes the stadard backstrap best so far.
And she needs a bit of practice with the different mechanisms(mag release, slide stop, etc) but she showed me last night she can function it. She does really hate to load a Mag, but that's no biggie since it came with 3... if 42 bulletts aren't enough no amount of reloading will suffice.
Now Im starting to ponder the next purchase for myself... 1911 vs G21g4... Not too soon though. And I think I may even want an AR-15 first(while I'm able to get one).
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02-07-2013, 12:17 PM #143Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: Guns...
I highly recommend a 1911 for any gun collection.
It's an iconic weapon, fun to shoot, incredibly accurate, etc.
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02-11-2013, 06:07 PM #144
Re: Guns...
meh... virtually indistinguishable to fire as well. I actually shot a smaller group with my Gen3 this morning. No biggie, I'm still happy with the $50 upcharge if only for a spare mag. The adjustable backstraps seem designed for people with Hulk hands.
On the bright side, My wife effectively changed mags, activated the slide and even loaded mags into the 5-8 round range consistantly and competently, and again shot with quite reasonable accuracy. Very happy with our purchase.
I think next time at the range I will leave my gun home and rent a 1911.
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