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  1. #1

    The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.



    You can really connect the dots, when it comes to how the Ravens front office has approached this idea of developing the offense. First, you can look at how high on their list Cam Cameron was as an OC. Brian Billick was defiinitely considering bringing him in. Even though Brian Billick was not retained, Cam Cameron was still brought in.

    Now, when you look at the way his offenses have performed here in Baltimore, there is a connection to be made, to how his offenses performed in San Diego. You had an offense centered around LaDanian Tomlinson. You had a QB who was not always allowed to sling it, even though he flashed great potential. The one difference that you saw is that Ed Dickson has not become the guy he was expected to be, a guy who could play that Antonio Gates role.

    Eventually, the Coryell was successful, in large part, due to Vincent Jackson, a guy who could use his size to force separation is close quarters.

    More to the point, the same criticisms that Cam Cameron faces here, are criticisms that he faced in San Diego, under Marty Schottenheimer, who is well known for his 'Martyball' approach.

    Schottenheimer was also known for his stubborn nature and was far from a player friendly coach.

    Well, if you can remember a guy who was high on the Ravens list of head coaching candidates, you might remember that Marty Schottenheimer was that guy.

    You can really connect the dots with how the Ravens front office felt about the offense, that they just needed the defense to get healthy again and they could use the same strategy of old to get to a Super Bowl.

    After trying it and being defeated in the playoffs year after year, they finally decided to change their approach. However, they still seem nervous about the full commitment. They've at least got to a point where they are comfortable letting the offense rip at home. However, they still get into these modes where that old mentality comes out, much like last week.

    If this year won't teach them anything else, it will teach them that they need to be more aggressive in developing this offense, because the defense is no longer a certainty.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  2. #2

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Eventually, the Coryell was successful, in large part, due to Vincent Jackson, a guy who could use his size to force separation is close quarters.
    Cam didn't benefit significantly from having VJax.
    Cam was the Chargers OC from 2002-2006.
    VJax was a rookie in 2005 who only caught a few passes for 0 TD.
    In 2006, Cam's last season there, VJax was more productive: about 30 catches for 450 yds with 6 TD.

    When Cam was there, the Chargers best WRs were Eric Parker and an old Keenan McCardell.

    Gates & Tomlinson were 75% of their offense.

    You are right that VJax did blossom in the Air Coryell, but that was under Norv.




  3. #3
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    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    The reason they are not fully committed to it is because they don't want games like Houston to occur too often. There is trying to develop the passing offense, and there's throwing games away.




  4. #4

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Here we go.

    If you can't get through a brick wall by banging your head into it, just keep doing it, you're bound to get through.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  5. #5
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    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    You can really connect the dots, when it comes to how the Ravens front office has approached this idea of developing the offense. First, you can look at how high on their list Cam Cameron was as an OC. Brian Billick was defiinitely considering bringing him in. Even though Brian Billick was not retained, Cam Cameron was still brought in.
    Thats right. Billick was on the way out west to interview CAM when
    he was fired. He had his plane ticket and everything but stopped
    into the office first when Bisc approached him with the news.

    HARBS brought him in because they worked together when CAM
    was head coach and HARBs was an assistant.

    Now CAM is his assistant.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  6. #6
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    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Here we go.

    If you can't get through a brick wall by banging your head into it, just keep doing it, you're bound to get through.
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  7. #7

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    Cam didn't benefit significantly from having VJax.
    Cam was the Chargers OC from 2002-2006.
    VJax was a rookie in 2005 who only caught a few passes for 0 TD.
    In 2006, Cam's last season there, VJax was more productive: about 30 catches for 450 yds with 6 TD.

    When Cam was there, the Chargers best WRs were Eric Parker and an old Keenan McCardell.

    Gates & Tomlinson were 75% of their offense.

    You are right that VJax did blossom in the Air Coryell, but that was under Norv.
    That's what I meant. I should have clarified. There's been an ongoing debate around here about the Coryell and I just wanted to add that in there to show that it can be effective.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  8. #8

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    My main point is that there was never a truly aggressive approach to develop the offense and that this approach is now hurting the team when it matters most, in the playoffs. Steve Bisciotti got his stability, but may have also got his plateau.

    It can't possibly be an indictment of Joe Flacco, who has already made the throw to clinch the sweep of the Steelers, and the throw that would have sent the Ravens to the Super Bowl, both on the road in the same season, that we expect another OC to come in here and see the offense ascend to a new level. Whether that person is Norv Turner or even Jim Caldwell.

    You didn't see any Marvin Harrison drafted for him. You didn't see any Santonio Holmes' drafted. You didn't see Donald Driver and Greg Jennings waiting for him. You essentially just saw Driver (Mason). It took them four years to draft Torrey Smith. They did make some trades, but look at how many years it took them to really start focusing on fits for the system.
    Last edited by The Excellector; 11-08-2012 at 07:29 AM.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  9. #9
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    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    My main point is that there was never a truly aggressive approach to develop the offense and that this approach is now hurting the team when it matters most, in the playoffs. Steve Bisciotti got his stability, but may have also got his plateau.

    It can't possibly be an indictment of Joe Flacco, who has already made the throw to clinch the sweep of the Steelers, and the throw that would have sent the Ravens to the Super Bowl, both on the road in the same season, that we expect another OC to come in here and see the offense ascend to a new level. Whether that person is Norv Turner or even Jim Caldwell.

    You didn't see any Marvin Harrison drafted with him. You didn't see any Santonio Holmes' drafted. You didn't see Donald Driver and Greg Jennings waiting for him. You essentially just saw Driver (Mason). It took them four years to draft Torrey Smith. They did make some trades, but look at how many years it took them to really start focusing on fits for the system.
    I see where your coming from, but those guys cost money. You could have either surrounded Flacco with weapons, but would have missed out on signing guys like Ngata and Suggs, and the defense would have sucked, it's one or the other, Flacco has never had what Matt Ryan has had in Atlanta, but he's had a great defense up until this year.

    It's all very well saying that Flacco would have had a better statistical career to this point, but I doubt he would have had the wins under his belt had we let the defense go soft, and wins are more important than nice stats.




  10. #10

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I see where your coming from, but those guys cost money. You could have either surrounded Flacco with weapons, but would have missed out on signing guys like Ngata and Suggs, and the defense would have sucked, it's one or the other, Flacco has never had what Matt Ryan has had in Atlanta, but he's had a great defense up until this year.

    It's all very well saying that Flacco would have had a better statistical career to this point, but I doubt he would have had the wins under his belt had we let the defense go soft, and wins are more important than nice stats.
    Now, the defense sucks anyway. I'm not saying that it was a bad idea to sign Suggs and Ngata, but it makes you question how much has to take place before they change their approach.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  11. #11
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    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Now, the defense sucks anyway. I'm not saying that it was a bad idea to sign Suggs and Ngata, but it makes you question how much has to take place before they change their approach.
    A lot of people anticipated that this defense was going to take a step back, but not this gigantic step back. I thought maybe, 10th ranked defense with a solid run D, much like 2010 really, but this defense has really fallen off a cliff. The FO now have two choices, restock the defense or continue to build the offense and become an offensive football team. The best case would be that all of our draft picks on defensive players are hits in the next few years, and we sign some big names to the offense, however you can't have it all, there is no team in the league that excels in every category well apart from maybe Houston.

    Unlike you, I think this team needs a legit LT before another WR. I think we are almost set at WR, we just need a OC who can call plays that allow receivers to actually get seperation. A big name FA like Ryan Clady, plus a new OC could truly be the completion of this offense IMO.




  12. #12

    Re: The Ravens approached the offense the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    A lot of people anticipated that this defense was going to take a step back, but not this gigantic step back. I thought maybe, 10th ranked defense with a solid run D, much like 2010 really, but this defense has really fallen off a cliff. The FO now have two choices, restock the defense or continue to build the offense and become an offensive football team. The best case would be that all of our draft picks on defensive players are hits in the next few years, and we sign some big names to the offense, however you can't have it all, there is no team in the league that excels in every category well apart from maybe Houston.

    Unlike you, I think this team needs a legit LT before another WR. I think we are almost set at WR, we just need a OC who can call plays that allow receivers to actually get seperation.
    I don't think they've done too bad defensively, it just seems like all of the young bucks have to play at the same time now. Cody can still develop, but he might need to move back to NG. That puts Ngata at NT. Upshaw and Suggs are your starting OLBs. McClellan and Ellerbe can be your ILBs. Jimmy can still develop. Benard is at SS. The only question marks come in at the other CB spot, the DE spot and how long Reed will stay at FS. They just need experience more than anything.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




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