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  1. #37
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    Re: So what exactly has this organization/coaching staff done in order to improve this offense?



    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    And got promptly smoked by the Giants the next season in the playoffs.
    Again to the eventual champion. To echo the OP, what exactly have we done? They have the same number of Lombardis over the past 5 seasons as we do - zero.




  2. #38

    Re: So what exactly has this organization/coaching staff done in order to improve this offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    Again to the eventual champion. To echo the OP, what exactly have we done? They have the same number of Lombardis over the past 5 seasons as we do - zero.
    Ok, if that is standard of failure or success, then why are you praising the Falcons and by comparison criticizing the Ravens?

    By your logic, they have been just as much a "failure" as the Ravens.




  3. #39

    Re: So what exactly has this organization/coaching staff done in order to improve this offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Ok, if that is standard of failure or success, then why are you praising the Falcons and by comparison criticizing the Ravens?

    By your logic, they have been just as much a "failure" as the Ravens.
    Yeah, but the Falcons haven't stood Pat. They make changes, try new coaches and schemes, trade up for dynamic players...




  4. #40

    Re: So what exactly has this organization/coaching staff done in order to improve this offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Yeah, but the Falcons haven't stood Pat. They make changes, try new coaches and schemes, trade up for dynamic players...
    And have had just as much "success" doing it as the Ravens.

    Sure. I would love to see the Ravens win it all, but barring that, I know for damn sure I will take their post-seasons over the Falcons' last 3 appearances. But that is just me; your mileage may vary.




  5. #41

    Re: So what exactly has this organization/coaching staff done in order to improve this offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    And have had just as much "success" doing it as the Ravens.

    Sure. I would love to see the Ravens win it all, but barring that, I know for damn sure I will take their post-seasons over the Falcons' last 3 appearances. But that is just me; your mileage may vary.
    Look, I know I am in the minority here, I respect you opinion and other's that the Raven's have had great success. But that to me is where we are exposed. We have stayed the same too long, relied on the same players too long, and in the end, this is going to cost us.




  6. #42
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    Re: So what exactly has this organization/coaching staff done in order to improve this offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Look, I know I am in the minority here, I respect you opinion and other's that the Raven's have had great success. But that to me is where we are exposed. We have stayed the same too long, relied on the same players too long, and in the end, this is going to cost us.
    This is a "what have you done for me lately" league.

    I agree that at some point, the Ravens need to mix it up. Not because they have to (which was when Chuck P left and they defaulted to Dean Pees), but because they WANT to.

    I also think not considering Jack Del Rio was an oversight.
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  7. #43

    Re: So what exactly has this organization/coaching staff done in order to improve this offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Look, I know I am in the minority here, I respect you opinion and other's that the Raven's have had great success. But that to me is where we are exposed. We have stayed the same too long, relied on the same players too long, and in the end, this is going to cost us.
    On offense, they didn't make major changes last off-season; although they did revamp the offensive line. Going from 2010 to 2011, they got rid of their second leading rusher (McGahee), and their 2nd and 3rd leading receivers (Mason and Heap).

    I would term winning a championship or two as "great success". Over the past 4 seasons the Ravens have been a very good football team. I understand the frustration in not winning it all. What I can't understand as how a team like the Falcons (which is a very good team as well) is somehow the bellwether to show how much the Ravens have "failed" in the past and will - almost certainly - "fail" again.

    And judging from the posts on a 6-2 team's message board, I don't think you are in the minority at all.
    Last edited by JohnBKistler; 11-06-2012 at 09:48 AM.




  8. #44

    Re: So what exactly has this organization/coaching staff done in order to improve this offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    This is a "what have you done for me lately" league.
    Well, I agree with that. But in the case of the Falcons, I gotta ask: "What have you done for me at all!?!?"




  9. #45
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    Re: So what exactly has this organization/coaching staff done in order to improve this offense?

    I know we all get frustrated, but I don't think it's so bad that it warrants such a lopsided view where we claim everyone and everything is awful...coaches can't coach, line stinks, Flacco stinks, receivers stink, front office hasn't done a thing, etc. I just don't buy such a one-sided view.

    Attempts have certainly been made to upgrade the offense. They have signed some veterans who have pretty lofty reputations...McKinnie, Boldin, Leach, Birk, namely. Now you can argue that these guys are past their primes, and haven't contributed, and that's fair, but it's not fair to claim these were not legitimate attempts to put solid players at positions of need.

    They've also invested high draft picks in an attempt to improve other offensive positions... Rice, Flacco, Smith, Osemele, Oher. And they've adjusted their approach, moving to a zone-blocking scheme, adding the no huddle, allowing Flacco to audible more.

    In some cases it's helped. Rice -- the guy everyone says should run the ball more -- is among the top running backs with nearly a five yard per carry average. How bad can the line and the line coach be? He's not doing this all on his own.

    I don't think it's all doom and gloom.

    Am I here to say there aren't problems? Of course not. Every team has problems. Two pretty good teams have quarterbacks -- Aaron Rodgers and Jay Cutler -- whose lines are allowing them to get the snot knocked out of them.

    If I'm being honest about the issues I do see, it concerns me that Cam Cameron's vertical passing philosophy has been ineffective against man coverage when defenders play tight and don't allow the receivers to get off the line. Too often this system doesn't leave Flacco many options on where to throw the ball, grinding the passing game to a halt and allowing teams to then put more resources against stopping the run.

    I think they've been indecisive on what type of offense they want to be. Are they defined by Flacco's arm and outside speed and finesse tight ends, and a pass blocking tackle like McKinney...or are they defined by a bulldozing Leach, a shifty back like Rice, a bulldozing tackle like Osemele. What is their go-to strength?

    You can argue that the Ravens stack up with other teams in the league in terms of offensive personnel but they lack what Billick used to call a "profile" or a vision.

    When you think of the Steelers you do think of their improvisational quarterback and bruising runners. When you think of New England it's clear what they want to do with shifty receivers and tight ends who give Brady options. You know what a drew Brees offense does. Or a Peyton Manning offense.

    Here's my point. I flatly reject the idea that the front office and coaching staff have done nothing to improve. I argue the opposite. They've done too much. Too much tinkering and experimenting with their approach. It's time for us to shut up, quit asking for change, let them stick with a philosophy, and let the players sink or swim with it.




  10. #46
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    Re: So what exactly has this organization/coaching staff done in order to improve this offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Well, I agree with that. But in the case of the Falcons, I gotta ask: "What have you done for me at all!?!?"
    And this is valid.

    The Falcons wouldn't be the first team to fire a head coach who had issues in the post season and hire someone else.

    The Bucs did it with Tony Dungy. He built that team and had a tough time getting over the post-season hump. So, they fired him and hired Jon Gruden, who won a SB with the team that Dungy built.

    Even as good as a team is, sometimes making a change can add a spark that the team needed and wasn't there previously.
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  11. #47
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    Re: So what exactly has this organization/coaching staff done in order to improve this offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Ok, if that is standard of failure or success, then why are you praising the Falcons and by comparison criticizing the Ravens?

    By your logic, they have been just as much a "failure" as the Ravens.
    Yes but if you look at this year, they appear to be trending upward. Also, the jury is still out as far as success goes. We'll know more about them come playoff time.




  12. #48

    Re: So what exactly has this organization/coaching staff done in order to improve this offense?

    The notion that the front office has not made any effort to improve every year is a little far fetch. I think everyone just wants to see Cam fired and then maybe from a fan's perspective they are making a sincere effort to improve. We shall see where the Ravens end up and what the offseason brings. I think regardless of what happens at the end of the season the offseason will be measured by the retaining or firing of Cam Cameron. I gave him a pass 2008-2010 and started to waver in my support of him last year and this year. In game adjustments are stil suspect, pass offense is inconsistent especially on the road. Two many 2 WR sets that call for Joe make 5-7 step dropbacks. And the list goes on and on. And yet despite all of that we are still 6-2 so I'm hopeful we'll see some improvement.




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