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  1. #16

    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?







    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I'd rather have Bruce Arians' offense over Cam's offense at this point.




  2. #17
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    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    Quote Originally Posted by rharris1986 View Post
    Oh hi, didn't you say that Cleveland were going to win for sure a few days back?




  3. #18
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    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    Pittsburgh fans' problem with Arians was that he was stuck in one mode as well. When their offense struggled, he struggled to get them out of a rut. The fan issues with the two coordinators in question are rather parallel.

    The one difference that I will note is that Arians had a much better relationship with Ben Roethlisberger, than Joe Flacco has with Cam Cameron. This is part of the reason why Roethlisberger was so upset with Todd Haley being the replacement. In Pittsburgh, Arians was seen as a 'Yes-man' of sorts, to Ben Roethlisberger. If Ben didn't want them to run a play, it was not run.

    So, I will say that Arians probably would have given Joe more of a leash, earlier on. However, he had the same issues with the lack of adjustment that the Ravens have and it's easy for people to forget that the Steelers, in recent years, have won many of their games in similar fashion to the Ravens. Their offense struggled to put up points. Their defense kept them in games. If it was a one score game with three minutes or less on the clock, Ben could win it.

    To be honest, they threw it, because Ben wanted to throw it and Arians didn't do much to stand against that philosophy. Mike Tomlin, who is similar to John Harbaugh in this regard, trusts his coordinators and is more hands off with the offense and defense.

    So, I don't think that Arians would have been an upgrade in that regard.
    Last edited by The Excellector; 11-04-2012 at 07:27 PM.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  4. #19
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    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    I don't think so. Pitt fans wanted him gone as bad as most of this board wants Cam gone, it wasn't like he was a hot commodity. And do you think the Ravens can win with Flacco throwing 50 times a game like Luck? Just a couple thoughtst...
    I have to disagree with you on the Pitt Fans screaming for Arians head. Some waned him gone but not to the degree I see as far as Ravens fans calling out Cam. I do agree that Flacco may not be best suited to throw 40+ per game.




  5. #20

    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Pittsburgh fans' problems with Arians is that he was stuck in one mode as well. When their offense struggled, he struggled to get them out of a rut. The fan issues with the two coordinators in question are rather parallel.

    The one difference that I will note is that Arians had a much better relationship with Ben Roethlisberger, than Joe Flacco has with Cam Cameron. This is part of the reason why Roethlisberger was so upset with Todd Haley being the replacement. In Pittsburgh, Arians was seen as a 'Yes-man' of sorts, to Ben Roethlisberger. If Ben didn't want them to run a play, it was not run.

    So, I will say that Arians probably would have given Joe more of a leash, earlier on. However, he had the same issues with the lack of adjustment that the Ravens have and it's easy for people to forget that the Steelers, in recent years, have won many of their games in similar fashion to the Ravens. Their offense struggled to put up points. Their defense kept them in games. If it was a one score game with three minutes or less on the clock, Ben could win it.

    To be honest, they threw it, because Ben wanted to throw it and Arians didn't do much to stand against that philosophy. Mike Tomlin, who is similar to John Harbaugh in this regard, trusts his coordinators and is more hands off with the offense and defense.

    So, I don't think that Arians would have been an upgrade in that regard.
    I agree that Arians had major problems with in-game adjustments, but I think he would still be an upgrade over Cam simply in that Arians actually had a fully developed, modern playbook that used the entire route tree with a number of different play concepts.

    Cam's playbook is missing huge sections of the modern NFL passing system--entire route concepts that simply aren't there. Any OC that uses a complete NFL playbook is an upgrade over Cam.




  6. #21
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    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    Deciding to keep Cam was the big mistake. Getting rid of him is step 1
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  7. #22

    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Pittsburgh fans' problems with Arians is that he was stuck in one mode as well. When their offense struggled, he struggled to get them out of a rut. The fan issues with the two coordinators in question are rather parallel.

    The one difference that I will note is that Arians had a much better relationship with Ben Roethlisberger, than Joe Flacco has with Cam Cameron. This is part of the reason why Roethlisberger was so upset with Todd Haley being the replacement. In Pittsburgh, Arians was seen as a 'Yes-man' of sorts, to Ben Roethlisberger. If Ben didn't want them to run a play, it was not run.

    So, I will say that Arians probably would have given Joe more of a leash, earlier on. However, he had the same issues with the lack of adjustment that the Ravens have and it's easy for people to forget that the Steelers, in recent years, have won many of their games in similar fashion to the Ravens. Their offense struggled to put up points. Their defense kept them in games. If it was a one score game with three minutes or less on the clock, Ben could win it.

    To be honest, they threw it, because Ben wanted to throw it and Arians didn't do much to stand against that philosophy. Mike Tomlin, who is similar to John Harbaugh in this regard, trusts his coordinators and is more hands off with the offense and defense.

    So, I don't think that Arians would have been an upgrade in that regard.
    That is very true. Ben and Bruce had as good of a relationship as a QB and OC can have while Joe and Cam have a very cold relationship obviously.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  8. #23
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    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    Arians has one huge advantage going for him: he is NOT Cam.




  9. #24
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    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I agree that Arians had major problems with in-game adjustments, but I think he would still be an upgrade over Cam simply in that Arians actually had a fully developed, modern playbook that used the entire route tree with a number of different play concepts.

    Cam's playbook is missing huge sections of the modern NFL passing system--entire route concepts that simply aren't there. Any OC that uses a complete NFL playbook is an upgrade over Cam.
    I can roll with that. Whenever we see modern tactics in our passing offense, it's so rare that we refer to it as creativity. In reality, it's only what the vast majority of current teams run.

    It's not so much the system that is behind the times. Detroit passed for over 5,000 yards out of a Coryell based system, if I am not mistaken, and their rush offense was subpar. Cameron's running of the system is behind the times.

    He seems like a true extension of Marty Schottenheimer, which shouldn't surprise anyone.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  10. #25
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    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Deciding to keep Cam was the big mistake. Getting rid of him is step 1
    Addition by subtraction.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  11. #26

    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    John Harbaugh is directly responsible for hiring and keeping Cam.

    How come he doesn't get heat from those who constantly blame Cameron for everything?

    PP




  12. #27
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    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    John Harbaugh is directly responsible for hiring and keeping Cam.

    How come he doesn't get heat from those who constantly blame Cameron for everything?

    PP
    because everything is Cam's fault except the fact that they keep winning
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  13. #28
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    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    John Harbaugh is directly responsible for hiring and keeping Cam.

    How come he doesn't get heat from those who constantly blame Cameron for everything?

    PP
    John Harbaugh should shoulder some of the blame, but the effect is not as strong for a few reasons. Cam Cameron was going to be brought in as the offensive coordinator, whether John Harbaugh was hired or not. You also have to keep in mind that the front office has supported the idea of winning with high quality defense and running the football. Steve Bisciotti himself has made comments that support that idea.

    Besides, although it was clear that the front office looked for a replacement, it's not Harbaugh's fault that they didn't find one.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  14. #29

    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    John Harbaugh should shoulder some of the blame, but the effect is not as strong for a few reasons. Cam Cameron was going to be brought in as the offensive coordinator, whether John Harbaugh was hired or not. You also have to keep in mind that the front office has supported the idea of winning with high quality defense and running the football. Steve Bisciotti himself has made comments that support that idea.

    Besides, although it was clear that the front office looked for a replacement, it's not Harbaugh's fault that they didn't find one.
    Actually, Billick was planning to talking to Cameron about becoming the OC.

    Harbaugh has strong ties to Cameron.

    That was happenstance.

    If the Ravens hired Jason Garrett or someone else, Cam Cameron wasn't gonna be the OC.

    I dunno why you think Cameron was coming here no matter what because that's not the case.

    Steve Bisciotti wants to win. If you think he cares how they win, that's your perogative.

    What's clear is that Cameron is VERY tight with Harbaugh.

    It's not Harbaugh's fault they didn't find a new OC? Please. Do you think they actually Harbaugh even made a phone call to potential replacements?

    Not his fault......

    Okey Doke.

    BTW, I think Cameron is part of the problem, but not nearly as big a part as most do around here.

    PP




  15. #30
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    Re: Did the Ravens make a mistake by not going after Bruce Arians?

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    John Harbaugh is directly responsible for hiring and keeping Cam.

    How come he doesn't get heat from those who constantly blame Cameron for everything?

    PP
    I think that he certainly deserves some heat.

    That said, I don't think he was directly responsible for hiring and/or keeping Cam. As Ex pointed out, Cam was likely on his way to Baltimore to interview for OC regardless of who they brought on to be the head coach. Secondly, Ozzie and Bisciotti should get some heat as well. They are above Harbaugh in the organization and if Ozzie and/or Bisciotti didn't want to try and find someone else then they clearly must have felt that Cam was better than any of the options out there.

    If this offense doesn't get exponentially better by the end of the season, then I can't see Cam NOT on the chopping block. If the "word" is coming down from above Harbs, then it won't matter if he isn't on board with it or not.

    Mike Tomlin wasn't on board with letting Bruce Arians go. That still happened.
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