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  1. #85
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense



    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I get the need for a D lineman and I hope we come out with one in one of the first 2 rounds.

    I don't and the Ravens hopefully won't take an inferior D lineman if there is a better ILB sitting there.

    I happen to be a HUGE Mosely fan...put me down for starting his bandwagon before he blows up late in the college postseason and pre draft workouts.

    Watch, that guy is going to be a big name by the end of the bowls.

    I just don't buy the "well, our DL stinks so we shouldn't take a linebacker" way of thinking. It's the same nonsense that I have read/heard regarding taking a QB without a good OL. If the guy is worth the pick, you take them...you don't pass because another aspect of your team isn't up to par.

    I look at it as DL/LB being our 1a and 1b needs.
    I agree with this. Definitely.

    Mosley is one of those guys who I think will just develop into one of the top LB's in the league in a very short time. He is REALLY good.
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  2. #86
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I wouldn't take any ILB in the 1st this year outside of Manti Te'o. I like some of the guys who will be around in the 2nd or 3rd, though.
    If they don't go ILB in round 1, then I'd hope they go for Gerald Hodges or maybe Shane Skov. I'm just not 100% on Skov as a pass defender yet. He is a good run defender though.

    That said, I think if Mosley is there when the Ravens pick in round 1 then they would be dumb to not go for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful
    I really think the Ravens can't go into 2013 without picking up a major FA defender, either a LB, 5-tech DE/DT, NT, or S. They just have so many holes at those positions and I can't think Ozzie will want to go into the draft with no depth missing starters at ILB, S, and potentially NT (if Kemo is not brought back).
    I agree 100%. I think this off-season they need to really do some spending (within reason and if they can) and bring in some better talent. If anything, it should at least light a fire under the asses of those who are currently here to do better and work harder to get better.

    Some guys (IMO) who could be interesting FA's...
    Alan Branch
    Shaun Cody
    Ricky Jean-Francois
    Tony McDaniel
    Randy Starks
    Brandon Siler
    Daryl Smith
    Jason Trusnik

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful
    One thing to remember is that they do have Bryan Hall and DeAngelo Tyson as young talent on the DL. We may get a chance to see them audition for bigger roles in the next few weeks. They also have Ryan McBean coming back from injury in 2013, a guy who I would think would be locked into the rotation if not starting.

    I rank the defensive needs as: S, ILB, and NT.
    I agree that Ryan McBean probably was going to be a big factor in this defense and probably would be starting right now at DE. We'll see how Hall and Tyson do. They could turn out to be decent players. Who knows at this point.
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  3. #87
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Especially if in the 3rd round you could be looking at guys like Casius Marsh, Jessie Williams, Datone Jones, or even Margus Hunt. Plus, we have absolutely no idea how these guys are going to look in December.
    Yeah, that's another guy I was looking at Magus Hunt from SMU. He's like an extremely raw version of JJ Watt, I think he'd be a worth while pick in the third. He's like 6'8 and is very much a pass rushing 5 technique, he would probably have to sit for one or two years though coming in as a rotational guy though because he is still pretty raw.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    However, I do disagree with you that no ILB outside of T'eo is worth a 1st round pick. I think T'eo and Mosley could definitely be round 1 picks.
    CJ Mosley is still IMO a second round pick. He's very fast and physical, and can cover well, but I'm just not sure if I'd pick him over a John Jenkins or a Louis Nix. It's not that his talent isn't first round worthy, it's just that there are plenty of ILB's in this class that can be taken in the 2nd round who will offer close to the same value as Moseley.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Did Jameel McClain look better last year? Yea, but so did Cody, Art Jones, Kruger, McPhee, Jimmy, and Cary. I think losing Chuck Pagano hurt A LOT more than losing Corey Redding and JJ.
    Well this is what I've been asking my self, and it's quite a big debate right now that I'm in two minds about. I too question that all of those players could regress so much in just one season, because nearly all of them looked to have solid futures as Ravens.

    We could always sign a FA LB like a Daryl Smith who is really good IMO. The two main problems with Smith is age and price.




  4. #88
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Well this is what I've been asking my self, and it's quite a big debate right now that I'm in two minds about. I too question that all of those players could regress so much in just one season, because nearly all of them looked to have solid futures as Ravens.

    We could always sign a FA LB like a Daryl Smith who is really good IMO. The two main problems with Smith is age and price.
    It is definitely something that anyone who is a Ravens fan should be thinking about, or at least considering.

    I like Daryl Smith and you're right that he may be looking for a decent contract, but I'd love to see him come here on a 3 year deal, draft another LB and then keep Jameel and Ellerbe as depth guys.

    I am also strongly hoping that maybe Dean Pees will pull a Mattison and "take another job" elsewhere. He's just not getting it done with this group of guys and I just have a difficult time accepting that all of these guys played exponentially better last year and this year look about as average/mediocre as you can get. I mean, McPhee and Jimmy Smith were playing on a borderline pro-bowl level as rookies. Then all of a sudden after an off-season with the team and in their 2nd year they stink? I've heard of a sophomore slump, but a sophomore slump for multiple folks? That just seems strange to me. If it was just Jimmy or just Art or just McPhee, then ok...it's probably just them...but damn near everyone? That's a pattern IMO and that pattern is directly a reflection of Dean Pees.
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  5. #89

    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Yeah, that's another guy I was looking at Magus Hunt from SMU. He's like an extremely raw version of JJ Watt, I think he'd be a worth while pick in the third. He's like 6'8 and is very much a pass rushing 5 technique, he would probably have to sit for one or two years though coming in as a rotational guy though because he is still pretty raw.



    CJ Mosley is still IMO a second round pick. He's very fast and physical, and can cover well, but I'm just not sure if I'd pick him over a John Jenkins or a Louis Nix. It's not that his talent isn't first round worthy, it's just that there are plenty of ILB's in this class that can be taken in the 2nd round who will offer close to the same value as Moseley.



    Well this is what I've been asking my self, and it's quite a big debate right now that I'm in two minds about. I too question that all of those players could regress so much in just one season, because nearly all of them looked to have solid futures as Ravens.

    We could always sign a FA LB like a Daryl Smith who is really good IMO. The two main problems with Smith is age and price.
    Regarding Mosely, I get that he isn't a clear cut 1st rounder right now, but in reality, once you get past the first 20 or so picks, most of the final 10 picks are guys that could be considered 2nd round value guys in "most" drafts.

    I don't think Jenkins is a clear first rounder either...or Nix. And frankly, I'd rather give Cody some more time to get his stuff together than go another season with McClain and Ray who are getting worse not only against the run, but may be the 2 worst LB's in pass defense in the league. We need to get some guys in here who at least look competent when they are dropping into coverage and playing in space.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  6. #90

    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Dean Pees was a bad choice to begin with. We just got out of the whole Mattison mess, a younger, fiery guy in Pagano came in and guided our D back into being one of the elite ones in the league. He gets hired away and then they go right back into the same type of guy in Pees. You really have to start questioning some of the decisions that are made and why our players suddenly dropped off harshly as Wicked Solo stated.

    I like CJ Moseley a lot as well. He's a physical guy who also gets good pressure when he blitzes up the middle. However, that said, Manti Te'o would obviously be my preferred choice. He's just a beast and has a high motor. I don't know if this is the year where they trade up for someone of his ilk or if they sit tight as usual to select some solid players, but Te'o plays the game the way it should be played.

    I don't know about the DL. I think we need improvements, but the biggest shock has to be the rapid drop off of guys like Cody and McPhee.




  7. #91
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Lime in the Coconut View Post
    Dean Pees was a bad choice to begin with. We just got out of the whole Mattison mess, a younger, fiery guy in Pagano came in and guided our D back into being one of the elite ones in the league. He gets hired away and then they go right back into the same type of guy in Pees. You really have to start questioning some of the decisions that are made and why our players suddenly dropped off harshly as Wicked Solo stated.

    I like CJ Moseley a lot as well. He's a physical guy who also gets good pressure when he blitzes up the middle. However, that said, Manti Te'o would obviously be my preferred choice. He's just a beast and has a high motor. I don't know if this is the year where they trade up for someone of his ilk or if they sit tight as usual to select some solid players, but Te'o plays the game the way it should be played.

    I don't know about the DL. I think we need improvements, but the biggest shock has to be the rapid drop off of guys like Cody and McPhee.
    It is very strange how they went from thinking these guys could be legit players to Kemo starting over Cody and Kruger, Art, McPhee, Jameel, Jimmy, Cary, and Ellerbe are all ineffective.
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  8. #92

    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Despite a very small dropoff in yardage, Mattison's defenses gave up the same number of points as Pagano's

    Personally, i don't think coaching is responsible for the dropoff...I think JJ and Redding were just that good against the run and frankly, everytime you have midround picks having to play a bigger role, not all of them make the jump. Everybody knew Kruger was going to struggle against the run. McPhee has a knee injury and was forced to play a much bigger role that the staff probably wanted and the same with Jones.

    McClain was never good despite people trying to say he would start on many teams...I don't think he'd start for more than 4 or 5 teams in this league. He was a UFA and nobody...nobody wanted him and he could have been had for a solid price for a starting ILB. And everybody hear likes to clown Bart Scott and how he wasn't that good after he left...Bart Scott is 10 times the player that McClain is and it showed when we had to use 2-3 people to replace the things that Bart did for us.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  9. #93
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Lime in the Coconut View Post
    Dean Pees was a bad choice to begin with. We just got out of the whole Mattison mess, a younger, fiery guy in Pagano came in and guided our D back into being one of the elite ones in the league. He gets hired away and then they go right back into the same type of guy in Pees. You really have to start questioning some of the decisions that are made and why our players suddenly dropped off harshly as Wicked Solo stated.

    I like CJ Moseley a lot as well. He's a physical guy who also gets good pressure when he blitzes up the middle. However, that said, Manti Te'o would obviously be my preferred choice. He's just a beast and has a high motor. I don't know if this is the year where they trade up for someone of his ilk or if they sit tight as usual to select some solid players, but Te'o plays the game the way it should be played.

    I don't know about the DL. I think we need improvements, but the biggest shock has to be the rapid drop off of guys like Cody and McPhee.




  10. #94
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Despite a very small dropoff in yardage, Mattison's defenses gave up the same number of points as Pagano's

    Personally, i don't think coaching is responsible for the dropoff...I think JJ and Redding were just that good against the run and frankly, everytime you have midround picks having to play a bigger role, not all of them make the jump. Everybody knew Kruger was going to struggle against the run. McPhee has a knee injury and was forced to play a much bigger role that the staff probably wanted and the same with Jones.

    McClain was never good despite people trying to say he would start on many teams...I don't think he'd start for more than 4 or 5 teams in this league. He was a UFA and nobody...nobody wanted him and he could have been had for a solid price for a starting ILB. And everybody hear likes to clown Bart Scott and how he wasn't that good after he left...Bart Scott is 10 times the player that McClain is and it showed when we had to use 2-3 people to replace the things that Bart did for us.
    The Ravens had one of the worse pass rush in the league while Mattison was in town. Yes they were pretty stingy in terms of yards allowed etc, but they blew a lot of games in the Mattison era that our offense kept us in. The Atlanta Falcons game comes to mind back in 2010, we almost lost in Houston who went 5-11 that year because of our defense, and who can forget about San Diego who had close to 500 yards of offense back in 09.

    That defense was not as bad as todays, but I think that probably has to do with not having Suggs for a few games, aswell as no Jarret Johnson or Cory Redding.




  11. #95
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    I don't think anyone could really argue that losing Redding and JJ didn't or is not impacting this defensive unit. Definitely is. Especially JJ. Redding - as good as he was/is - did miss some time last year and Art Jones and McPhee split time there and this D was still getting the job done.


    I just think Chuck P did a much better job at getting the most out of these guys and Dean Pees is more of a traditional 3-4 and isn't quite sure how to use the talent to the best of their ability.

    Case and point: The cornerbacks. If you know that 2 out of your top 3 corners are at their best when they are at the LOS and jamming receivers...then why line them up 8-10 yards off? That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
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  12. #96
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I don't think anyone could really argue that losing Redding and JJ didn't or is not impacting this defensive unit. Definitely is. Especially JJ. Redding - as good as he was/is - did miss some time last year and Art Jones and McPhee split time there and this D was still getting the job done.


    I just think Chuck P did a much better job at getting the most out of these guys and Dean Pees is more of a traditional 3-4 and isn't quite sure how to use the talent to the best of their ability.

    Case and point: The cornerbacks. If you know that 2 out of your top 3 corners are at their best when they are at the LOS and jamming receivers...then why line them up 8-10 yards off? That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
    Especially when you seen Jimmy and Cary do a pretty good job jamming receivers last year, Pagano had them doing that a lot.




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