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  1. #76
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense



    Not a fan of Arthur Brown? I've read some good things about him.




  2. #77
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    I doubt we come out of round 2 without a nose tackle or a 5 technique. Sheldon Richardson is a guy I am interested in.




  3. #78
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I doubt we come out of round 2 without a nose tackle or a 5 technique. Sheldon Richardson is a guy I am interested in.
    I've watched a couple if Missouri games and I'm not quite sure if Richardson would be a good fit in a 3-4. He has the size, but he doesn't seem like he plays like that. I think he'd be an ideal 4-3 left end or 4-3 under tackle. He's more of a pass rusher/finesse guy, so that's kind of where my assessment is on him currently.

    Good player, just not sure if he'd be a good fit in Baltimore's D.


    I contemplated Louis Nix or Jon Jenkins in round 1, but I think CJ Mosley is the better player there and frankly I think ILB is WAY more of a hole than DT. Plus, IMO, after T'eo, Mosley, and Ogletree there is a pretty significant drop off in talent of guys who would fit the bill of a 3-4 ILB.
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  4. #79
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Van Cleef View Post
    Not a fan of Arthur Brown? I've read some good things about him.
    He is a good player. Probably a 4-3 OLB though. I think he's a bit on the smallish side to play in Baltimore's 3-4. He is about 225-230lbs. Not saying he wouldn't be a good player in Baltimore, but if I'm choosing between Mosley in round 1 and say Brown in round 2, I'm going Mosley all the way. That guy is a solid player and his experience and success in a 3-4 makes him much more valuable IMO. He's not as big as Hightower, but he's much, much more athletic and much better in space.
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  5. #80
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I've watched a couple if Missouri games and I'm not quite sure if Richardson would be a good fit in a 3-4. He has the size, but he doesn't seem like he plays like that. I think he'd be an ideal 4-3 left end or 4-3 under tackle. He's more of a pass rusher/finesse guy, so that's kind of where my assessment is on him currently.

    Good player, just not sure if he'd be a good fit in Baltimore's D.


    I contemplated Louis Nix or Jon Jenkins in round 1, but I think CJ Mosley is the better player there and frankly I think ILB is WAY more of a hole than DT.
    True, I just really like the pressure he brings up the middle, and it's something that we are severely lacking.

    And I disagree somewhat that ILB is a bigger need than DT. As Arnie_UK has said before on these boards, you put any LB there, and they are going to be ineffective with the Dline we have. When we had Cory Redding for example, it's funny how Jameel McClain looked a lot better than he has this year. I think ILB is one of the biggest needs on this team, but for me, NT or 5 technique is the number 1 need this offseason, followed closely by OT, we need to improve the trenches. History shows that you can get a good ILB in a later round, or sign a good player in FA for a reasonable price. DT/NT/OT's are much harder to draft or find.

    I a a big fan of Jon Jenkins, Louis Nix, Sheldon Richardson, and even Jesse Williams. It's a favorable draft for DT's this year for sure. As good as CJ Mosely is, I'm not sure there are any ILB's I'd take in the first round other than Manti Teo, and I felt the same way this year when Hightower was on the radar. Are ILB's really worth it no matter how good they are when you can get a really good one in the second or third rounds? These are questions that I always consider when I personally project where an ILB may end up going. Lets take a look at Bobby Wagner who went in the second round for example, he's right now perhaps the favorite to win defensive rookie of the year, and has played much better than either Luke Kuechy (who went 8 overall) and Donta Hightower who went 25th overall.




  6. #81
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    Re: Looking at the off-season: Navorro Bowman

    Quote Originally Posted by HKusp View Post
    If Bowman were to hit the market he would be one of the TOP Fa's out there, you would be bidding against all but 2 or 3 teams. No way the Ravens would get him anyway.

    Espcially when they sign Joe. If he gets his $100M, there won't be
    room for anyone else. We already lost 5 guys last year cause we
    were so close to the cap ceiling and even more will leave this
    year.

    UGH!




  7. #82
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    True, I just really like the pressure he brings up the middle, and it's something that we are severely lacking.

    And I disagree somewhat that ILB is a bigger need than DT. As Arnie_UK has said before on these boards, you put any LB there, and they are going to be ineffective with the Dline we have. When we had Cory Redding for example, it's funny how Jameel McClain looked a lot better than he has this year. I think ILB is one of the biggest needs on this team, but for me, NT or 5 technique is the number 1 need this offseason, followed closely by OT, we need to improve the trenches. History shows that you can get a good ILB in a later round, or sign a good player in FA for a reasonable price. DT/NT/OT's are much harder to draft or find.

    I a a big fan of Jon Jenkins, Louis Nix, Sheldon Richardson, and even Jesse Williams. It's a favorable draft for DT's this year for sure. As good as CJ Mosely is, I'm not sure there are any ILB's I'd take in the first round other than Manti Teo, and I felt the same way this year when Hightower was on the radar. Are ILB's really worth it no matter how good they are when you can get a really good one in the second or third rounds? These are questions that I always consider when I personally project where an ILB may end up going. Lets take a look at Bobby Wagner who went in the second round for example, he's right now perhaps the favorite to win defensive rookie of the year, and has played much better than either Luke Kuechy (who went 8 overall) and Donta Hightower who went 25th overall.
    I don't disagree with you that DT/DE isn't a need. It definitely is a need. I'm not going to disagree with you there, but I think because this draft has a lot of quality DL'man then you can potentially value an ILB like Mosley a bit higher than a DT or a DE. Especially if in the 3rd round you could be looking at guys like Casius Marsh, Jessie Williams, Datone Jones, or even Margus Hunt. Plus, we have absolutely no idea how these guys are going to look in December. Sometimes the light just clicks on after a bit and guys look completely different in December and January than what they did in September. I'm hoping that maybe this could happen with one or more of the guys on the DL right now.

    However, I do disagree with you that no ILB outside of T'eo is worth a 1st round pick. I think T'eo and Mosley could definitely be round 1 picks.

    Did Jameel McClain look better last year? Yea, but so did Cody, Art Jones, Kruger, McPhee, Jimmy, and Cary. I think losing Chuck Pagano hurt A LOT more than losing Corey Redding and JJ (not to say that those two losses don't have an impact). I just think Pags knew how to get the most out of the talent that he had on defense and right now Dean Pees isn't sure how to get that same performance. I refuse to believe that ALL of those guys regressed over the off-season. It is far more likely that Dean Pees is having a hard time figuring out how to use everyone to their strengths. I mean, we can see that in the secondary by having both Jimmy and Cary playing 8-10 yards off when last year they were successful by playing press coverage and jamming the WR's at the line of scrimmage. That is a change in scheme and defensive philosophy, not a drop-off in talent.

    I will say that even with McClain playing better last year, he still was never very good in coverage and in today's NFL you need a MLB who can cover.
    Last edited by wickedsolo; 10-28-2012 at 08:45 PM.
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  8. #83

    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    I wouldn't take any ILB in the 1st this year outside of Manti Te'o. I like some of the guys who will be around in the 2nd or 3rd, though.

    I really think the Ravens can't go into 2013 without picking up a major FA defender, either a LB, 5-tech DE/DT, NT, or S. They just have so many holes at those positions and I can't think Ozzie will want to go into the draft with no depth missing starters at ILB, S, and potentially NT (if Kemo is not brought back).

    One thing to remember is that they do have Bryan Hall and DeAngelo Tyson as young talent on the DL. We may get a chance to see them audition for bigger roles in the next few weeks. They also have Ryan McBean coming back from injury in 2013, a guy who I would think would be locked into the rotation if not starting.

    I rank the defensive needs as: S, ILB, and NT.




  9. #84

    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    True, I just really like the pressure he brings up the middle, and it's something that we are severely lacking.

    And I disagree somewhat that ILB is a bigger need than DT. As Arnie_UK has said before on these boards, you put any LB there, and they are going to be ineffective with the Dline we have. When we had Cory Redding for example, it's funny how Jameel McClain looked a lot better than he has this year. I think ILB is one of the biggest needs on this team, but for me, NT or 5 technique is the number 1 need this offseason, followed closely by OT, we need to improve the trenches. History shows that you can get a good ILB in a later round, or sign a good player in FA for a reasonable price. DT/NT/OT's are much harder to draft or find.

    I a a big fan of Jon Jenkins, Louis Nix, Sheldon Richardson, and even Jesse Williams. It's a favorable draft for DT's this year for sure. As good as CJ Mosely is, I'm not sure there are any ILB's I'd take in the first round other than Manti Teo, and I felt the same way this year when Hightower was on the radar. Are ILB's really worth it no matter how good they are when you can get a really good one in the second or third rounds? These are questions that I always consider when I personally project where an ILB may end up going. Lets take a look at Bobby Wagner who went in the second round for example, he's right now perhaps the favorite to win defensive rookie of the year, and has played much better than either Luke Kuechy (who went 8 overall) and Donta Hightower who went 25th overall.
    I get the need for a D lineman and I hope we come out with one in one of the first 2 rounds.

    I don't and the Ravens hopefully won't take an inferior D lineman if there is a better ILB sitting there.

    I happen to be a HUGE Mosely fan...put me down for starting his bandwagon before he blows up late in the college postseason and pre draft workouts.

    Watch, that guy is going to be a big name by the end of the bowls.

    I just don't buy the "well, our DL stinks so we shouldn't take a linebacker" way of thinking. It's the same nonsense that I have read/heard regarding taking a QB without a good OL. If the guy is worth the pick, you take them...you don't pass because another aspect of your team isn't up to par.

    I look at it as DL/LB being our 1a and 1b needs.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  10. #85
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I get the need for a D lineman and I hope we come out with one in one of the first 2 rounds.

    I don't and the Ravens hopefully won't take an inferior D lineman if there is a better ILB sitting there.

    I happen to be a HUGE Mosely fan...put me down for starting his bandwagon before he blows up late in the college postseason and pre draft workouts.

    Watch, that guy is going to be a big name by the end of the bowls.

    I just don't buy the "well, our DL stinks so we shouldn't take a linebacker" way of thinking. It's the same nonsense that I have read/heard regarding taking a QB without a good OL. If the guy is worth the pick, you take them...you don't pass because another aspect of your team isn't up to par.

    I look at it as DL/LB being our 1a and 1b needs.
    I agree with this. Definitely.

    Mosley is one of those guys who I think will just develop into one of the top LB's in the league in a very short time. He is REALLY good.
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  11. #86
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I wouldn't take any ILB in the 1st this year outside of Manti Te'o. I like some of the guys who will be around in the 2nd or 3rd, though.
    If they don't go ILB in round 1, then I'd hope they go for Gerald Hodges or maybe Shane Skov. I'm just not 100% on Skov as a pass defender yet. He is a good run defender though.

    That said, I think if Mosley is there when the Ravens pick in round 1 then they would be dumb to not go for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful
    I really think the Ravens can't go into 2013 without picking up a major FA defender, either a LB, 5-tech DE/DT, NT, or S. They just have so many holes at those positions and I can't think Ozzie will want to go into the draft with no depth missing starters at ILB, S, and potentially NT (if Kemo is not brought back).
    I agree 100%. I think this off-season they need to really do some spending (within reason and if they can) and bring in some better talent. If anything, it should at least light a fire under the asses of those who are currently here to do better and work harder to get better.

    Some guys (IMO) who could be interesting FA's...
    Alan Branch
    Shaun Cody
    Ricky Jean-Francois
    Tony McDaniel
    Randy Starks
    Brandon Siler
    Daryl Smith
    Jason Trusnik

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful
    One thing to remember is that they do have Bryan Hall and DeAngelo Tyson as young talent on the DL. We may get a chance to see them audition for bigger roles in the next few weeks. They also have Ryan McBean coming back from injury in 2013, a guy who I would think would be locked into the rotation if not starting.

    I rank the defensive needs as: S, ILB, and NT.
    I agree that Ryan McBean probably was going to be a big factor in this defense and probably would be starting right now at DE. We'll see how Hall and Tyson do. They could turn out to be decent players. Who knows at this point.
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  12. #87
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Especially if in the 3rd round you could be looking at guys like Casius Marsh, Jessie Williams, Datone Jones, or even Margus Hunt. Plus, we have absolutely no idea how these guys are going to look in December.
    Yeah, that's another guy I was looking at Magus Hunt from SMU. He's like an extremely raw version of JJ Watt, I think he'd be a worth while pick in the third. He's like 6'8 and is very much a pass rushing 5 technique, he would probably have to sit for one or two years though coming in as a rotational guy though because he is still pretty raw.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    However, I do disagree with you that no ILB outside of T'eo is worth a 1st round pick. I think T'eo and Mosley could definitely be round 1 picks.
    CJ Mosley is still IMO a second round pick. He's very fast and physical, and can cover well, but I'm just not sure if I'd pick him over a John Jenkins or a Louis Nix. It's not that his talent isn't first round worthy, it's just that there are plenty of ILB's in this class that can be taken in the 2nd round who will offer close to the same value as Moseley.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Did Jameel McClain look better last year? Yea, but so did Cody, Art Jones, Kruger, McPhee, Jimmy, and Cary. I think losing Chuck Pagano hurt A LOT more than losing Corey Redding and JJ.
    Well this is what I've been asking my self, and it's quite a big debate right now that I'm in two minds about. I too question that all of those players could regress so much in just one season, because nearly all of them looked to have solid futures as Ravens.

    We could always sign a FA LB like a Daryl Smith who is really good IMO. The two main problems with Smith is age and price.




  13. #88
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Well this is what I've been asking my self, and it's quite a big debate right now that I'm in two minds about. I too question that all of those players could regress so much in just one season, because nearly all of them looked to have solid futures as Ravens.

    We could always sign a FA LB like a Daryl Smith who is really good IMO. The two main problems with Smith is age and price.
    It is definitely something that anyone who is a Ravens fan should be thinking about, or at least considering.

    I like Daryl Smith and you're right that he may be looking for a decent contract, but I'd love to see him come here on a 3 year deal, draft another LB and then keep Jameel and Ellerbe as depth guys.

    I am also strongly hoping that maybe Dean Pees will pull a Mattison and "take another job" elsewhere. He's just not getting it done with this group of guys and I just have a difficult time accepting that all of these guys played exponentially better last year and this year look about as average/mediocre as you can get. I mean, McPhee and Jimmy Smith were playing on a borderline pro-bowl level as rookies. Then all of a sudden after an off-season with the team and in their 2nd year they stink? I've heard of a sophomore slump, but a sophomore slump for multiple folks? That just seems strange to me. If it was just Jimmy or just Art or just McPhee, then ok...it's probably just them...but damn near everyone? That's a pattern IMO and that pattern is directly a reflection of Dean Pees.
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  14. #89

    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Yeah, that's another guy I was looking at Magus Hunt from SMU. He's like an extremely raw version of JJ Watt, I think he'd be a worth while pick in the third. He's like 6'8 and is very much a pass rushing 5 technique, he would probably have to sit for one or two years though coming in as a rotational guy though because he is still pretty raw.



    CJ Mosley is still IMO a second round pick. He's very fast and physical, and can cover well, but I'm just not sure if I'd pick him over a John Jenkins or a Louis Nix. It's not that his talent isn't first round worthy, it's just that there are plenty of ILB's in this class that can be taken in the 2nd round who will offer close to the same value as Moseley.



    Well this is what I've been asking my self, and it's quite a big debate right now that I'm in two minds about. I too question that all of those players could regress so much in just one season, because nearly all of them looked to have solid futures as Ravens.

    We could always sign a FA LB like a Daryl Smith who is really good IMO. The two main problems with Smith is age and price.
    Regarding Mosely, I get that he isn't a clear cut 1st rounder right now, but in reality, once you get past the first 20 or so picks, most of the final 10 picks are guys that could be considered 2nd round value guys in "most" drafts.

    I don't think Jenkins is a clear first rounder either...or Nix. And frankly, I'd rather give Cody some more time to get his stuff together than go another season with McClain and Ray who are getting worse not only against the run, but may be the 2 worst LB's in pass defense in the league. We need to get some guys in here who at least look competent when they are dropping into coverage and playing in space.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  15. #90

    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Dean Pees was a bad choice to begin with. We just got out of the whole Mattison mess, a younger, fiery guy in Pagano came in and guided our D back into being one of the elite ones in the league. He gets hired away and then they go right back into the same type of guy in Pees. You really have to start questioning some of the decisions that are made and why our players suddenly dropped off harshly as Wicked Solo stated.

    I like CJ Moseley a lot as well. He's a physical guy who also gets good pressure when he blitzes up the middle. However, that said, Manti Te'o would obviously be my preferred choice. He's just a beast and has a high motor. I don't know if this is the year where they trade up for someone of his ilk or if they sit tight as usual to select some solid players, but Te'o plays the game the way it should be played.

    I don't know about the DL. I think we need improvements, but the biggest shock has to be the rapid drop off of guys like Cody and McPhee.




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