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  1. #37
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    Re: Looking at the off-season: Navorro Bowman



    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Maybe we can change this discussion to be more about 2013 FA defenders in general that the Ravens could have an interest in? Obviously Bowman is not one of them since he's not an FA at all.

    There are two defensive players I think the Ravens would do well to pursue in 2013: Kenny Phillips and Daryl Smith.

    Phillips is a center-field FS who would be a more than adequate replacement for Ed Reed, arguably an improvement over what Ed Reed can offer at this point in his career.

    Daryl Smith has only ever played in the 4-3, but he is one of the best and most underrated LBs in the league, he is outstanding in every facet of the game and I think he'd play great at Mike ILB. Again, he would be a significant improvement on what Ray Lewis can offer at this point in his career.
    Love Daryl Smith.

    Don't love Kenny Phillips. He's a good player, but durability is a big concern with him.
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  2. #38
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I also like Gerald Hodges LB out of Penn St...
    Me too. He and his teammate Mike Mauti are solid players.
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  3. #39

    Re: Looking at the off-season: Navorro Bowman

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Love Daryl Smith.

    Don't love Kenny Phillips. He's a good player, but durability is a big concern with him.
    Phillips had microfracture surgery and missed most of 2009, and yes he's missed some time this season with an MCL sprain, but he played in 31 of 32 games in 2010 and 2011. An MCL sprain is a freak thing, I'm not sure it's indicative of being a fragile player. The microfracture would be a concern if he didn't appear fully recovered from it over the past few years.

    I agree he's a bit of a risky player, but he's the best of a bad crop. Safety is not a strong position in free agency this year. I strongly disagree that safety is not a valuable position in the NFL at this time; rangy athletes who can cover centerfield and also step up into the box and run with tight ends are more important than they've ever been. Kenny Phillips gives you that kind of player.

    I think safety is a position they MUST address and they need a very talented player at the position if they want to continue to play the Ravens traditional Cover-1 scheme. If they don't land a talented FA, they will need to work magic to get a good player in the draft. I like Eric Reid, Tony Jefferson, and Kenny Vaccaro, but I don't really see any of those guys as difference makers at free safety. I did like what Kenny Vaccaro did vs. WVU.




  4. #40
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    Re: Way Too Early 2013 Draft/FA Thread: Fixing the Defense

    Ideally, I would like to see the Ravens looking into the following free agents (assuming they hit free agency):

    I'd also like to point out that we aren't 100% on what the cap projection will be, so obviously that will impact any free agent shopping. I don't expect Ozzie to all of a sudden take a page out of Dan Snyder's playbook and sign every big name out there. These are just key guys who I think are reasonable projections (monetarily and logistically) who would sincerely help this team get better.

    1. OT Will Svitek, currently with Atlanta. Did a solid job starting in Atlanta in place of Sam Baker last year. At worst, he'd be excellent back up and competition for Oher (or whoever) at LT.

    2. OT Ryan Clady, currently with Denver. I'd be surprised if he made it to free agency, but apparently he and Denver aren't seeing eye to eye contractually and John Elway may decide to move on. Clady would be on my short list and he'd be worth it.

    3. OG Evan Dietrich-Smith, currently with Green Bay. I think he is one of the more underrated guards in the league. He's no Allen Faneca, but he's a solid player. Probably wouldn't command too much money either.

    4. OLB Connor Barwin, currently with Houston. I'm pretty sure every 3-4 defense out there is going to be looking at Barwin. I'm not sure if Ozzie would sign any FA OLB's right now considering they'll probably try to re-sign Kruger, they'll be getting McAdoo back and they, of course, used a 2nd rounder on Upshaw. Still, Barwin is a heck of a player and I don't see Houston being able to keep him, which is why they drafted Mercilus.

    5. DT/DE Ricky Jean-Francois, currently with San Fran. Experienced 5-technique DE/DT. Average pass rusher, but decent player against the run. He probably wouldn't cost too much and he'd be an upgrade over Art Jones and would allow McPhee to go back to being a situational pass rusher, which suits him better IMO.

    6. DT Henry Melton, currently with Chicago. I'm pretty sure the Bears will re-sign him, but if they don't he may be interesting. He was a DE in college, but bulked up into the 290's and has played well as an interior pass rusher. I'm not sure how he'd fit in a 3-4 scheme, but he does a nice job pushing the pocket and keeping Chicago's linebackers clean.

    7. S Chris Clemons, currently with Miami. He's an under the radar type of guy, but he's been a solid starting safety for Miami. At worst, he'd be excellent depth and can play free and strong.

    Draft: (I can only hope Baltimore is picking at spot 32, but I do realistically think that picking after 25 is probable)
    Round 1 - Manti T'eo is the obvious buzz pick right now and he should be, but I'd be surprised if he lasted into the 20's. I think these guys are much more likely scenarios:
    • Taylor Lewan, OT, Michigan (6'8" 310lbs)
    • Dallas Thomas, OG, Tennessee (6'5" 311lbs)
    • Louis Nix, DT, Notre Dame (6'5" 330lbs)
    • TJ McDonald, FS, USC (6'2" 209lbs)
    • Tony Eiffert, TE, Notre Dame(6'6" 259lbs)



  5. Rounds 2-5 - Probably will look at guys like the following:
    • Alec Ogletree, ILB, Georgia (6'3" 235lbs)
    • Gerald Hodges, ILB, Penn State (6'2" 235lbs)
    • Shane Skov, ILB, Stanford (6'3" 250lbs)
    • Chase Thomas, OLB, Stanford (6'4" 245lbs)
    • Cyril Richardson, OG, Baylor (6'5" 335lbs)
    • Casius Marsh, DE, UCLA (6'4" 295lbs)
    • BRandon Bishop, FS, NC State (6'2" 200lbs)
    • Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia (5'9" 175lbs)
    • Ryan Swope, WR, Texas A&M (6'1" 200lbs)
    • Travis Long, OLB, Washington State (6'3" 255lbs)
    • Brett Steinkuler, DE, Nebraska (6'6" 295lbs)

    Rounds 6&7 - probably look at some fliers/sleepers/developmental guys:
    • Brandon Jenkins, DE, Florida State (6'3" 265lbs) - probably was one of the top rated pass rushers in the country before getting hurt.
    • Joe Vellano, DE, Maryland (6'1" 285lbs) - I love this guy. He is undersized, but he is always around the ball and constantly playing plays. If he were 6'3" or 6'4" he'd probably be considered for 3rd or even 2nd round projections.
    • Trevardo Williams, DE, UCONN (6'3" 233lbs) - Don't know if any of you (maybe GOTA?) has seen UCONN play this year, but I've seen two games and this kid is CONSTANTLY in the back field. As a pure pass rusher from a 3-4 OLB spot...he'd be pretty nasty.
    • Jordan Reed, TE, Florida (6'3" 245lbs) - Ed Dickson sucks. Ravens really need to find another TE who can catch passes.
    • Michael Williams, TE, Alabama (6'6" 265lbs) - He's more of a run blocking TE, which Baltimore may find intriguing, but he's athletic too and can catch.
    • Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt (6'3" 200lbs) - nice size/speed combo. Kind of plays like a Miles Austin or Jerome Simpson.
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  • #41
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    Re: Looking at the off-season: Navorro Bowman

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Phillips had microfracture surgery and missed most of 2009, and yes he's missed some time this season with an MCL sprain, but he played in 31 of 32 games in 2010 and 2011. An MCL sprain is a freak thing, I'm not sure it's indicative of being a fragile player. The microfracture would be a concern if he didn't appear fully recovered from it over the past few years.

    I agree he's a bit of a risky player, but he's the best of a bad crop. Safety is not a strong position in free agency this year. I strongly disagree that safety is not a valuable position in the NFL at this time; rangy athletes who can cover centerfield and also step up into the box and run with tight ends are more important than they've ever been. Kenny Phillips gives you that kind of player.

    I think safety is a position they MUST address and they need a very talented player at the position if they want to continue to play the Ravens traditional Cover-1 scheme. If they don't land a talented FA, they will need to work magic to get a good player in the draft. I like Eric Reid, Tony Jefferson, and Kenny Vaccaro, but I don't really see any of those guys as difference makers at free safety. I did like what Kenny Vaccaro did vs. WVU.
    I just included it in my big post in here, but I think TJ McDonald is interested in the bottom of round 1 as is Tony Jefferson and Kenny Vaccaro. I'm not 100% on Eric Reid, but gotta love his size/speed.

    As far as free agents, Chris Clemons could be interesting (Miami Dolphins right now).
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  • #42
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    Re: Looking at the off-season: Navorro Bowman

    Ok, so I'm not sure what happened to my post on page two...weird...
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  • #43
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    Re: Looking at the off-season: Navorro Bowman

    Ideally, I would like to see the Ravens looking into the following free agents (assuming they hit free agency):

    I'd also like to point out that we aren't 100% on what the cap projection will be, so obviously that will impact any free agent shopping. I don't expect Ozzie to all of a sudden take a page out of Dan Snyder's playbook and sign every big name out there. These are just key guys who I think are reasonable projections (monetarily and logistically) who would sincerely help this team get better.

    1. OT Will Svitek, currently with Atlanta. Did a solid job starting in Atlanta in place of Sam Baker last year. At worst, he'd be excellent back up and competition for Oher (or whoever) at LT.

    2. OT Ryan Clady, currently with Denver. I'd be surprised if he made it to free agency, but apparently he and Denver aren't seeing eye to eye contractually and John Elway may decide to move on. Clady would be on my short list and he'd be worth it.

    3. OG Evan Dietrich-Smith, currently with Green Bay. I think he is one of the more underrated guards in the league. He's no Allen Faneca, but he's a solid player. Probably wouldn't command too much money either.

    4. OLB Connor Barwin, currently with Houston. I'm pretty sure every 3-4 defense out there is going to be looking at Barwin. I'm not sure if Ozzie would sign any FA OLB's right now considering they'll probably try to re-sign Kruger, they'll be getting McAdoo back and they, of course, used a 2nd rounder on Upshaw. Still, Barwin is a heck of a player and I don't see Houston being able to keep him, which is why they drafted Mercilus.

    5. DT/DE Ricky Jean-Francois, currently with San Fran. Experienced 5-technique DE/DT. Average pass rusher, but decent player against the run. He probably wouldn't cost too much and he'd be an upgrade over Art Jones and would allow McPhee to go back to being a situational pass rusher, which suits him better IMO.

    6. DT Henry Melton, currently with Chicago. I'm pretty sure the Bears will re-sign him, but if they don't he may be interesting. He was a DE in college, but bulked up into the 290's and has played well as an interior pass rusher. I'm not sure how he'd fit in a 3-4 scheme, but he does a nice job pushing the pocket and keeping Chicago's linebackers clean.

    7. S Chris Clemons, currently with Miami. He's an under the radar type of guy, but he's been a solid starting safety for Miami. At worst, he'd be excellent depth and can play free and strong.

    Draft: (I can only hope Baltimore is picking at spot 32, but I do realistically think that picking after 25 is probable)
    Round 1 - Manti T'eo is the obvious buzz pick right now and he should be, but I'd be surprised if he lasted into the 20's. I think these guys are much more likely scenarios:
    Taylor Lewan, OT, Michigan (6'8" 310lbs) - Prototypical LT size. Solid footwork and a good run defender.
    Dallas Thomas, OG, Tennessee (6'5" 311lbs) - Started at LT for the Vols last year and moved to LG this year and hasn't missed a beat.
    Louis Nix, DT, Notre Dame (6'5" 330lbs) - Can play anywhere on the DL in a 3-4. Has the size to play NT, but would offer much more as a pass rusher than Terrance Cody or Art Jones. Plus, he is only 20 years old.
    TJ McDonald, FS, USC (6'2" 209lbs) - Rangy, good ball skills, and tackles well. Nice upside.
    Tony Eiffert, TE, Notre Dame(6'6" 259lbs) - Like it or not, the Ravens could seriously consider someone like Eiffert here. Probably the best all-around TE in this draft. He blocks like Pettigrew, but can be a passing attack fixture like Gronkowski. Ed Dickson sucks and while Pitta is great, Eiffert is a better blocker, bigger, arguably just as fast, and has more upside.



    Rounds 2-5 - Probably will look at guys like the following:
    Alec Ogletree, ILB, Georgia (6'3" 235lbs) - rangy and athletic
    Gerald Hodges, ILB, Penn State (6'2" 235lbs) - maybe the closest thing to someone like Darryl Washington in Arizona. Very underrated.
    Shane Skov, ILB, Stanford (6'3" 250lbs) - Slowly showing signs of his old self prior to his injury. Intelligent and sound fundamental player.
    Chase Thomas, OLB, Stanford (6'4" 245lbs) - Tough run defender. Sets the edge well. Decent in coverage.
    Cyril Richardson, OG, Baylor (6'5" 335lbs) - Lots of upside.
    Casius Marsh, DE, UCLA (6'4" 295lbs) - Plays kind of like Adam Carriker. Nice 5-tech lineman.
    Brandon Bishop, FS, NC State (6'2" 200lbs) - Very underrated safety. NC State has some nice players this year.
    Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia (5'9" 175lbs) - Local guy, big time play maker, return specialist, vertical speed.
    Ryan Swope, WR, Texas A&M (6'1" 200lbs) - Solid route runner/possession guy with deceptive speed. Great hands.
    Travis Long, OLB, Washington State (6'3" 255lbs) - Ideal 3-4 OLB. Has had a couple of games with multiple sacks this year. Underrated.
    Brett Steinkuler, DE, Nebraska (6'6" 295lbs) - Kind of a boom/bust player, but the upside is there as a run defender.

    Rounds 6&7 - probably look at some fliers/sleepers/developmental guys:
    Brandon Jenkins, DE, Florida State (6'3" 265lbs) - probably was one of the top rated pass rushers in the country before getting hurt.
    Joe Vellano, DE, Maryland (6'1" 285lbs) - I love this guy. He is undersized, but he is always around the ball and constantly playing plays. If he were 6'3" or 6'4" he'd probably be considered for 3rd or even 2nd round projections.
    Trevardo Williams, DE, UCONN (6'3" 233lbs) - Don't know if any of you (maybe GOTA?) has seen UCONN play this year, but I've seen two games and this kid is CONSTANTLY in the back field. As a pure pass rusher from a 3-4 OLB spot...he'd be pretty nasty.
    Jordan Reed, TE, Florida (6'3" 245lbs) - Ed Dickson sucks. Ravens really need to find another TE who can catch passes.
    Michael Williams, TE, Alabama (6'6" 265lbs) - He's more of a run blocking TE, which Baltimore may find intriguing, but he's athletic too and can catch.
    Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt (6'3" 200lbs) - nice size/speed combo. Kind of plays like a Miles Austin or Jerome Simpson.
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  • #44

    Re: Looking at the off-season: Navorro Bowman

    Back to Navorro Bowman

    Why do you think its such a stretch? In order to sign bowman, theyll need at least 9 mill/year. They already have patrick willis at 7.5/year.

    They are not going to have 17 million dollars/year going to both of their linebackers. Especially when they have alex smith to sign, dashon goldson, etc.

    I do not see Navorro Bowman staying with the 49ers when they already have patrick willis.

    We will also have decisions to make. Ed reed may be gone, Ray Lewis may be gone and thats about 13-14 mill/year right there. Jameel McClain may even be gone, if he doesnt step it up this year.

    It is not a wacky thought to think that Navorro Bowman could end up on the Ravens. Not when we have a salary cap.

    However, if we are in the position to draft manti teo or another top LB... I dont see us doing so, obviously




  • #45
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    Re: Looking at the off-season: Navorro Bowman

    Quote Originally Posted by landspeed View Post
    Back to Navorro Bowman

    Why do you think its such a stretch? In order to sign bowman, theyll need at least 9 mill/year. They already have patrick willis at 7.5/year.

    They are not going to have 17 million dollars/year going to both of their linebackers. Especially when they have alex smith to sign, dashon goldson, etc.

    I do not see Navorro Bowman staying with the 49ers when they already have patrick willis.

    We will also have decisions to make. Ed reed may be gone, Ray Lewis may be gone and thats about 13-14 mill/year right there. Jameel McClain may even be gone, if he doesnt step it up this year.

    It is not a wacky thought to think that Navorro Bowman could end up on the Ravens. Not when we have a salary cap.

    However, if we are in the position to draft manti teo or another top LB... I dont see us doing so, obviously
    Why would the Niners let Bowman go when he has been one of the top 3-4 ILB's in the game the last 2 seasons? The Packers paid a fair amount to lock up AJ Hawk and Desmond Bishop. It's not like a team has to choose one or the other.

    No way the Niners let Bowman go.
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  • #46

    Re: Looking at the off-season: Navorro Bowman

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Why would the Niners let Bowman go when he has been one of the top 3-4 ILB's in the game the last 2 seasons? The Packers paid a fair amount to lock up AJ Hawk and Desmond Bishop. It's not like a team has to choose one or the other.

    No way the Niners let Bowman go.
    AJ Hawk has been anything but stellar until this year. Desmond Bishop and AJ Hawk arent comparable to the level of play and level of PAY that Navorro Bowman/Patrick Willis play at/get paid at.

    Obviously the 49ers dont want Bowman to walk, but its the same situation that houston was in this off-season with Mario Williams. Theyd love to have them both, But having 2 LBs at 2 of the highest salaries for LBs in the league on the same team? Thats not a good use of funds, when they could use help elsewhere, considering they have a lot of 1-year contracts this year.
    Last edited by landspeed; 10-24-2012 at 10:05 PM.




  • #47
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    Re: Looking at the off-season: Navorro Bowman

    Quote Originally Posted by landspeed View Post
    AJ Hawk has been anything but stellar until this year. Desmond Bishop and AJ Hawk arent comparable to the level of play and level of PAY that Navorro Bowman/Patrick Willis play at/get paid at.

    Obviously the 49ers dont want Bowman to walk, but its the same situation that houston was in this off-season with Mario Williams. Theyd love to have them both, But having 2 LBs at 2 of the highest salaries for LBs in the league on the same team? Thats not a good use of funds, when they could use help elsewhere, considering they have a lot of 1-year contracts this year.
    IIRC. the Niners had (at least this year) one of the lowest cap totals in the league...so there is no reason to think that they can't or won't afford Bowman.

    Their big contracts right now is Patrick Willis, Frank Gore, Justin Smith, and maybe Vernon Davis. They don't have a ton of money involved in their secondary, their stud OLB pass rushers are a rookie (Aldon Smith) and a guy in his 2nd contract (Ahmad Brooks), so neither of those guys are expensive either. On the other side of the ball most of their guys are in rookie deals or very affordable deals, including Alex Smith. Even if the Niners do retain Alex Smith next year he won't command nearly the money that Flacco or other young QB's entering contract years will command.

    The point is, the Niners could afford Bowman if they want to.
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  • #48

    Re: Looking at the off-season: Navorro Bowman

    This off season the team needs to part ways with the big dollar older players. It is time to turn over the roster. These are the players I would part ways with: Boldin, Birk, McKinnie, Lewis, Reed, Jameel McLain, BA and Maake.

    There is a good nucleus of veteran players to lead the transition. If this season falls apart it will make it easier. Of course there better be some coaching changes as well.

    I love Manti Teo from ND but I doubt he is going to be there when the Ravens draft. It seems to be a strong draft for DT. I would really like to see the Ravens get a true LT in the first round. It is a deep defensive draft.




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