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  1. #16

    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff



    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    Maybe Harbaugh can take a lesson from Billick. Didn't he hire Jim Fassel, one of his best friends at the time, as offensive coordinator (2004?). Then fire him after two unproductive offensive seasons(?) You can be a supportive Head Coach for just so long, then you've got to be realistic about how your team is headed. When your own career may be in jeopardy (not saying Harbs is), then you've got to assess players and coaches under you with a more sensible eye, and not let anything personal get in the way of a prudent decision... Bc
    That move didn't really work out, did it? We had a very easy schedule down the stretch, the Steelers were awful that season so we coasted to a 13-3 record. But when it mattered most in the playoffs against the Colts and their cover 2, Billick's offense yet again laid an egg. What a shame b/c that defense was a close 2nd to our 2000 team.




  2. #17

    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenous1 View Post
    Your entitled to your opinion. Key injuries and losses does apply to the D and I noted that Pees was handed a less than other Ravens coordinators. Of the guys on that list Pees is the one guy who can justifiably stand up and say ...hey look at what i am working with here.

    Cam, Moeller have a long a history of underachieving IMO that extends beyond this season. Many teams make moves when they feel like they are not getting most out of their talent. You think the Texans were not happy to have moved on to Wade Phillips? How about the Falcons, think they are not happy they moved on to Mike Nolan? Just cause your a winning team does not mean the men that coach those players should not be held accountable to getting the best performance from the group they are responsible for. Personally I do not think this group hits that mark .
    Whether you think our assistants are the best in the NFL or not, you can't just fire everybody, it's unrealistic. This collective group, management, players, coaches, etc. have won a playoff game in 4 straight years, which is rarely done in the NFL and something we as fans should be proud of. You praise Wade Phillips, who just last week gave up 6 TD passes to Aaron Rodgers and was absolutely torched. Mike Nolan is now with his 3rd team in 4 years, there's a reason he's finding a new home almost every season.

    Everybody from the top on down turned in a dud yesterday, but they're not going to hit the panic button just yet. Bye week came at a great time, and they have 2 weeks to figure it out. It's not just the coaches to blame, the players have to take some responsibility, its not as black and white as people make it out to be. Now if we lose say 4 or 5 in a row, then something major might happen, but I still think they wait until the year is over to make a decision on Cam.

    Like I keep saying, win your games at home and find a way to split on the road, and you are guaranteed a first round bye.




  3. #18
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    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

    There is one reason to think this will finally be the last year of Cam - Flacco's contract. It's clear with the turbulance of their relationship that should Joe resign he will not want Cam back here. Then the Ravens will have a choice to make. Flacco may not be an elite QB but when the choice is between him and Cam there is no choice. Lol




  4. #19
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    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

    Quote Originally Posted by ravens1217 View Post
    Whether you think our assistants are the best in the NFL or not, you can't just fire everybody, it's unrealistic. This collective group, management, players, coaches, etc. have won a playoff game in 4 straight years, which is rarely done in the NFL and something we as fans should be proud of. You praise Wade Phillips, who just last week gave up 6 TD passes to Aaron Rodgers and was absolutely torched. Mike Nolan is now with his 3rd team in 4 years, there's a reason he's finding a new home almost every season.

    Everybody from the top on down turned in a dud yesterday, but they're not going to hit the panic button just yet. Bye week came at a great time, and they have 2 weeks to figure it out. It's not just the coaches to blame, the players have to take some responsibility, its not as black and white as people make it out to be. Now if we lose say 4 or 5 in a row, then something major might happen, but I still think they wait until the year is over to make a decision on Cam.

    Like I keep saying, win your games at home and find a way to split on the road, and you are guaranteed a first round bye.
    Not suggesting that we fire anyone in season. That said, if the players performance is fair game to be discussed then so is the coaching staff. If you cant see that Wade Philips and Mike Nolan have had positive influences on the teams they are with then your just looking at it with blinders.

    Again Pees is the one guy who can make some legit argument that he has been hampered from putting out a good unit by injury and FA losses. Cam...whats his excuse? There is plenty of talent on the Offensive side of the ball. Plenty has been invested there and its not unreasonable to expect a certain level of return on that investment. If you think the uneven offensive play to this point is enough, we just have to agree to disagree
    “A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,”
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  5. #20

    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Cj34 View Post
    There is one reason to think this will finally be the last year of Cam - Flacco's contract. It's clear with the turbulance of their relationship that should Joe resign he will not want Cam back here. Then the Ravens will have a choice to make. Flacco may not be an elite QB but when the choice is between him and Cam there is no choice. Lol
    That is a very good point. If they are going to sign him to a contract that pays him over 50 million guaranteed, he is going to have some say in the matter of who is calling the offense.




  6. #21

    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Cj34 View Post
    There is one reason to think this will finally be the last year of Cam - Flacco's contract. It's clear with the turbulance of their relationship that should Joe resign he will not want Cam back here. Then the Ravens will have a choice to make. Flacco may not be an elite QB but when the choice is between him and Cam there is no choice. Lol
    This. Midway through the season and we still see some of the same issues on the offensive side of the ball. Me beginning to think that it might be chemistry related underneath the surface. Unless Cam and this offense finishes strong he's out after this season.




  7. #22
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    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

    I don't think so. Harbaugh is not going to fire him. I just don't see that happening.




  8. #23
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    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

    What's Moeller's connection to this cabal? I've been snooping around the intertoobz & I haven't found any direct link to Harbaugh prior to coming here. Is he Cam's fair-haired boy?




  9. #24
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    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

    There are decisions that do make you question whether or not John Harbaugh has taken the right approach. However, there are a few that show you he is willing to make a change if he feels it is necessary.

    For example, the front office essentially suggested to Mattison that he take another offer if it comes around, because they were going to let him go. With that, John Harbaugh promotes Chuck Pagano and the defense flourishes.

    Then, you have a situation such as the one with Andy Moeller, where Matsko was a guy everyone seemed to respect and thought had the offensive line moving in the right direction (was dealing with injuries up front before he was gone). Moeller hasn't done much better with the offensive line, but has seemingly been given a longer period to work things out.

    As far as Cam Cameron is concerned, I think that John Harbaugh has unfairly shouldered the heat for Cameron being retained. Let's be clear: They all wanted Cam Cameron replaced. However, their dream replacement was retained by San Diego and we all know who that was. So, the front office chose continuity. Steve Bisciotti himself has talked about how they prefer to win games 15-12, rather than 45-42. This isn't merely a John Harbaugh issue. It is a front office issue.

    Rest assured, however, that they now have their fall-back option in Jim Caldwell. So, if Norv Turner somehow survives another year and no other suitable options show up, you'll see Caldwell.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  10. #25

    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

    Quote Originally Posted by ravens1217 View Post
    Whether you think our assistants are the best in the NFL or not, you can't just fire everybody, it's unrealistic. This collective group, management, players, coaches, etc. have won a playoff game in 4 straight years, which is rarely done in the NFL and something we as fans should be proud of. You praise Wade Phillips, who just last week gave up 6 TD passes to Aaron Rodgers and was absolutely torched. Mike Nolan is now with his 3rd team in 4 years, there's a reason he's finding a new home almost every season.

    Everybody from the top on down turned in a dud yesterday, but they're not going to hit the panic button just yet. Bye week came at a great time, and they have 2 weeks to figure it out. It's not just the coaches to blame, the players have to take some responsibility, its not as black and white as people make it out to be. Now if we lose say 4 or 5 in a row, then something major might happen, but I still think they wait until the year is over to make a decision on Cam.

    Like I keep saying, win your games at home and find a way to split on the road, and you are guaranteed a first round bye.
    It was not just yesterday. The problems on offense have been ongoing for years. The defense has fallen to bottom five in the league. That is unacceptable. I could see falling to 15-20 range. How is the defense worst than Indy? Because Harbs was loyal to Cam and Moeller they are stuck with one of them next year as they are probably not going to change over their entire staff. It is the coaches responsibility to get the players to perform. I am not expecting them to make decision in season. I think the coaches should be given the bye week to get things turned around. If they dont I am not sure the team makes the playoffs. If they dont I hope they make some significant changes.




  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenous1 View Post
    I hear ya but not buying it. Nolan was a guy who was unsuccessful in SF as a head coach and not a guy who IMO just walks into a team that has been to 4 straight playoffs and supplants the head coach. If this is the reason then its worse than I feared. Look Gary Kubiack had the stones to bring in Wade Phillips to be his D coordinator. Phillips is about as popular as one can get in Houston (Texas boy, dad Bum was popular etc..) but it did not stop him from bringing him in.

    I just think John felt obligated to move up one of his guys. Pees has coordinator experience and was ok as a coordinator so I guess it makes sense. Just think that Nolan has a better pedigree and a history with the team.
    1. Ray did not like playing in Nolan's 3-4 D.

    2. Nolan's history with the team really means nothing when only 2 players remain with the team who were here when Nolan was.

    3. Other than when a new staff has been hired with a new HC (and,even then, not always), the team has always promoted from within when replacing a coordinator. That predates Harbaugh.

    Oh, and most HC's are just as loyal as Harbaugh.
    Last edited by B-more Ravor; 10-22-2012 at 09:03 PM.
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  12. #27
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    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

    I am wondering if Ozzie and Bisciotti are to the point where they tell Harbaugh to make some changes, or his job is on the line. Did the Ravens just extend Harbaugh's contract?




  13. #28
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    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    1. Ray did not like playing in Nolan's 3-4 D.

    2. Nolan's history with the team really means nothing when only 2 players remain with the team who were here when Nolan was.

    3. Other than when a new staff has been hired with a new HC (and,even then, not always), the team has always promoted from within when replacing a coordinator. That predates Harbaugh.
    All very good points. Ray's displeasure with Nolan's defense, sort of, ushered in Rex Ryan's time as DC and the drafting of Haloti Ngata. Chris McAlister was a big reason why Nolan's defenses were good, but Ray was getting touched too often and he certainly voiced his displeasure.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  14. #29

    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    What's Moeller's connection to this cabal? I've been snooping around the intertoobz & I haven't found any direct link to Harbaugh prior to coming here. Is he Cam's fair-haired boy?
    They all go back to Michigan. Moeller's dad was Michigan's head coach before he got fired, err resigned, for getting arrested in a drunken assault in a restaurant.




  15. #30

    Re: Harbaugh loyal to a fault... Ravens coaching staff

    Pees isn't close to the problem this defense has.

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