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  1. #37
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    Re: My U-G-L-Y Cameron got no alibi



    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Gotta link for that?


    Prove it.


    We'll wait.
    Harbaugh didn't start sitting in on offensive meetings until last year. After the 2010 playoff disaster in pitt, it was pretty widely reported that Harbs didnt participate in Cam's meetings. along with firing a decent oline coach he also pledged to take a more active aproach in the offensive gameplanning going into 2011.




  2. #38

    Re: My U-G-L-Y Cameron got no alibi

    Quote Originally Posted by ballhawk View Post
    Harbaugh didn't start sitting in on offensive meetings until last year. After the 2010 playoff disaster in pitt, it was pretty widely reported that Harbs didnt participate in Cam's meetings. along with firing a decent oline coach he also pledged to take a more active aproach in the offensive gameplanning going into 2011.
    And I'd be willing to bet that he still hasn't sat in on one of those meetings.




  3. #39

    Re: My U-G-L-Y Cameron got no alibi

    Tony, I'm so glad to see your post, because your cred gives it the gravitas needed to keep it from being attacked or ignored.

    This not a SB-quality team. Quite possibly not even a division-winner. Yes, we ARE 5-2. And plastic tits look great. For a while.

    Is Cam responsible for Joe's awful road record? Then who gets the credit for Joe's very good home record? I DO NOT SUPPORT CAM, but Joe can NOT be counted on to turn in a competitive performance. Cam does not sit in isolation on the bench, neither working with the OC nor working to fire up his teammates. That's Joe.

    Our Oline varies week-to-week from mediocre to poor.

    Our Dline? Gimpy Ngata and "two guys."

    LBs? The heart of a 3-4: a bunch of UDFAs. Did Oz "steal" these UDFA starters because ALL 31 of the other GMs are morons? REALLY?

    Oline? An aged C with a question mark behind him. An aged, gimpy LG with a career IR, small college >T< sort of behind him.

    RIGHT NOW name ONE player on the D who OCs have to game plan for.

    I have to stop. I love the Ravens, but this team needs a long,hard look.




  4. #40

    Re: My U-G-L-Y Cameron got no alibi

    Quote Originally Posted by houstonravensfan View Post
    Is Cam responsible for Joe's awful road record? Then who gets the credit for Joe's very good home record? I DO NOT SUPPORT CAM, but Joe can NOT be counted on to turn in a competitive performance. Cam does not sit in isolation on the bench, neither working with the OC nor working to fire up his teammates. That's Joe.
    One thing I've noticed though: Joe's poor performances on the road since 2011 seem to always come against man to man defenses that rush 4 and drop 7 back and still get pressure while covering our receivers.
    To me that's a sure sign that against those types of defenses, Cam's scheme is unworkable. And if that's the case, then would it matter if we had an elite QB like Rogers or Brady? Are they going to be able to complete passes to receivers who are not open? Are they going to stand in the pocket and take shot after shot from pass rushers and not get flustered? (or injured?) I watch the games with the elite passing offenses, and what strikes me is that you don't see any of the elite QBs throwing into tight windows anywhere near as often as Flacco. Because their receivers actually get open, and get more yards after the catch. Even when the opposing D goes man to man; heck, the elite passing teams tend to burn those D's when they do that. How often though do we see our receivers get tackled immediately after the catch, especially when their being covered man to man?

    That's why I can't be too critical of Flacco because I'm not sure any QB can turn in a competitive performance consistently under these circumstances. Is it fair or even realistic to expect any QB to successfully fit Cam's square peg into that tight round hole?

    As for Joe not talking to Cam, do you see any of the offensive players talking to Cam on the sideline? Seems to me that's on Cam. For that matter is there any reason why Boldin and the other receivers can't come up to Joe to initiate any discussions concerning the game? Maybe the players don't bother because they know the necessary adjustments are not coming no matter how desperately they're needed, so why bother talking about it. People often point out that in these types of games, Joe seems disinterested, that he lacks the fire...well, he's not the only one on the offense. Pretty much all the guys on our O kinda sleepwalk through these games. Why doesn't Harbaugh try to rally the troops? He is the head coach. And he's shown he can get giddy as a 13 year old girl about to go on her first real date, when it comes to celebrating what an awesome job Cam did in not only making the other teams WR drop the 2 point conversion but also cleverly causing their FG kicker to miss the game-winner. Why can't he direct some of that rah rah towards the players on the sideline when they're clearly in a funk? And why for the love of everything wonderful can he not sidle up to Cam and politely remind him that we do have the premier FB and one of the best RB in the entire league?

    I guess I just always look at the coaching before I look at the players, and if I see a game plan which is untenable, I just can't blame the layers for failing. Heck I can't even blame them for not really trying.

    Finally, we can only know what we actually see, everything else we can only speculate. So who among us really knows what's really going on within that locker room. All we know is that we keep losing games like this, and all we get afterwards is a lot of BS platitudes from the ones who are most responsible. So, where is the accountability?

    To me, THAT is the key missing ingredient.




  5. #41

    Re: My U-G-L-Y Cameron got no alibi

    Thank you for your Cam Cameron rant. My thoughts and feelings exactly.




  6. #42
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    Re: My U-G-L-Y Cameron got no alibi

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    One thing I've noticed though: Joe's poor performances on the road since 2011 seem to always come against man to man defenses that rush 4 and drop 7 back and still get pressure while covering our receivers.
    To me that's a sure sign that against those types of defenses, Cam's scheme is unworkable. And if that's the case, then would it matter if we had an elite QB like Rogers or Brady? Are they going to be able to complete passes to receivers who are not open? Are they going to stand in the pocket and take shot after shot from pass rushers and not get flustered? (or injured?) I watch the games with the elite passing offenses, and what strikes me is that you don't see any of the elite QBs throwing into tight windows anywhere near as often as Flacco. Because their receivers actually get open, and get more yards after the catch. Even when the opposing D goes man to man; heck, the elite passing teams tend to burn those D's when they do that. How often though do we see our receivers get tackled immediately after the catch, especially when their being covered man to man?

    That's why I can't be too critical of Flacco because I'm not sure any QB can turn in a competitive performance consistently under these circumstances. Is it fair or even realistic to expect any QB to successfully fit Cam's square peg into that tight round hole?

    As for Joe not talking to Cam, do you see any of the offensive players talking to Cam on the sideline? Seems to me that's on Cam. For that matter is there any reason why Boldin and the other receivers can't come up to Joe to initiate any discussions concerning the game? Maybe the players don't bother because they know the necessary adjustments are not coming no matter how desperately they're needed, so why bother talking about it. People often point out that in these types of games, Joe seems disinterested, that he lacks the fire...well, he's not the only one on the offense. Pretty much all the guys on our O kinda sleepwalk through these games. Why doesn't Harbaugh try to rally the troops? He is the head coach. And he's shown he can get giddy as a 13 year old girl about to go on her first real date, when it comes to celebrating what an awesome job Cam did in not only making the other teams WR drop the 2 point conversion but also cleverly causing their FG kicker to miss the game-winner. Why can't he direct some of that rah rah towards the players on the sideline when they're clearly in a funk? And why for the love of everything wonderful can he not sidle up to Cam and politely remind him that we do have the premier FB and one of the best RB in the entire league?

    I guess I just always look at the coaching before I look at the players, and if I see a game plan which is untenable, I just can't blame the layers for failing. Heck I can't even blame them for not really trying.

    Finally, we can only know what we actually see, everything else we can only speculate. So who among us really knows what's really going on within that locker room. All we know is that we keep losing games like this, and all we get afterwards is a lot of BS platitudes from the ones who are most responsible. So, where is the accountability?

    To me, THAT is the key missing ingredient.
    Great post.

    Literally, if the cornerback knows what kind of routes are coming and they line up in press-man, it is exponentially easier for them to stay with the receiver. Even with the speed Torrey has, Flacco has to really put it out there for Torrey to have a chance at accelerating away from the defender and get to the ball. Those plays have such a low probability of completion, yet they are a fixture in this offense.

    If you watch the Patriots' offense you'll notice that Tom Brady hardly ever throws it past 15 yards and more often than not is looking at guys like Gronk, Hernandez, and Welker because they are getting out into space quickly. Brady puts the ball in their hands and lets them do their thing in space.

    It is just staggering to me how all of these other teams just have guys running all over the place, uncovered, and every Raven's receiver is blanketed arguably 9 out of 10 plays. The windows that Flacco has to throw to are insane and frankly it is unfair to Boldin, Pitta, and Torrey as well. How are they supposed to make plays when they've got guys draped all over them?
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  7. #43

    Re: My U-G-L-Y Cameron got no alibi

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Great post.

    Literally, if the cornerback knows what kind of routes are coming and they line up in press-man, it is exponentially easier for them to stay with the receiver. Even with the speed Torrey has, Flacco has to really put it out there for Torrey to have a chance at accelerating away from the defender and get to the ball. Those plays have such a low probability of completion, yet they are a fixture in this offense.

    If you watch the Patriots' offense you'll notice that Tom Brady hardly ever throws it past 15 yards and more often than not is looking at guys like Gronk, Hernandez, and Welker because they are getting out into space quickly. Brady puts the ball in their hands and lets them do their thing in space.

    It is just staggering to me how all of these other teams just have guys running all over the place, uncovered, and every Raven's receiver is blanketed arguably 9 out of 10 plays. The windows that Flacco has to throw to are insane and frankly it is unfair to Boldin, Pitta, and Torrey as well. How are they supposed to make plays when they've got guys draped all over them?

    WORD! I hate seeing other teams and their 'creative' offenses. It sucks. Throw an 8 yard out on 3rd down to Pitta or the Derrick Mason equivalent, every damn time. How many times have we seen that play end a drive or end a damn game for that matter?

    As I said before, at least my expectations are so low now I might not get too damn uptight watching these games for a while.

    I still think they win 5 more games though, who knows where we can be at the end of the season.




  8. #44
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    Re: My U-G-L-Y Cameron got no alibi

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    One thing I've noticed though: Joe's poor performances on the road since 2011 seem to always come against man to man defenses that rush 4 and drop 7 back and still get pressure while covering our receivers.
    To me that's a sure sign that against those types of defenses, Cam's scheme is unworkable. And if that's the case, then would it matter if we had an elite QB like Rogers or Brady? Are they going to be able to complete passes to receivers who are not open? Are they going to stand in the pocket and take shot after shot from pass rushers and not get flustered? (or injured?) I watch the games with the elite passing offenses, and what strikes me is that you don't see any of the elite QBs throwing into tight windows anywhere near as often as Flacco. Because their receivers actually get open, and get more yards after the catch. Even when the opposing D goes man to man; heck, the elite passing teams tend to burn those D's when they do that. How often though do we see our receivers get tackled immediately after the catch, especially when their being covered man to man?

    That's why I can't be too critical of Flacco because I'm not sure any QB can turn in a competitive performance consistently under these circumstances. Is it fair or even realistic to expect any QB to successfully fit Cam's square peg into that tight round hole?

    As for Joe not talking to Cam, do you see any of the offensive players talking to Cam on the sideline? Seems to me that's on Cam. For that matter is there any reason why Boldin and the other receivers can't come up to Joe to initiate any discussions concerning the game? Maybe the players don't bother because they know the necessary adjustments are not coming no matter how desperately they're needed, so why bother talking about it. People often point out that in these types of games, Joe seems disinterested, that he lacks the fire...well, he's not the only one on the offense. Pretty much all the guys on our O kinda sleepwalk through these games. Why doesn't Harbaugh try to rally the troops? He is the head coach. And he's shown he can get giddy as a 13 year old girl about to go on her first real date, when it comes to celebrating what an awesome job Cam did in not only making the other teams WR drop the 2 point conversion but also cleverly causing their FG kicker to miss the game-winner. Why can't he direct some of that rah rah towards the players on the sideline when they're clearly in a funk? And why for the love of everything wonderful can he not sidle up to Cam and politely remind him that we do have the premier FB and one of the best RB in the entire league?

    I guess I just always look at the coaching before I look at the players, and if I see a game plan which is untenable, I just can't blame the layers for failing. Heck I can't even blame them for not really trying.

    Finally, we can only know what we actually see, everything else we can only speculate. So who among us really knows what's really going on within that locker room. All we know is that we keep losing games like this, and all we get afterwards is a lot of BS platitudes from the ones who are most responsible. So, where is the accountability?

    To me, THAT is the key missing ingredient.
    Cam doesn't get a pass. But neither does Flacco. He's in his FIFTH season in the same offense. He should be in full control of this offense yet for some reason he isn't. His road struggles actually go back to 2010. The only difference being the defense can't bail him out anymore. He wants 100 million? He needs to show he deserves it. A 56 Qb rating on the road ain't cutting it bud.




  9. #45

    Re: My U-G-L-Y Cameron got no alibi

    1. If you didn't see Flacco making audibles its because you don't want to see it to boost your excuses. I can call out at least three right now without re-watching the game. (Hand motions)..."the smoker" "the goatee pull down" and "the two hand ass pat".

    2. Talent is the major issue but the coaching staff's message is already stale (it seems) and the effort seems to be lacking by some players. IMO Cam and Pees should be let go. It's just time for a change more than anything (specifically Cam). Like I said it is more talent than scheme or should I say talent dictates scheme. In any case the morale on both sides seems to be suffering.

    3. I have said before that Jimmy Smith is a FS. His hips are stiff and his instincts don't fit the corner position. He can't stop peeking at the quarterback and biting on the double move.

    4. Back in 2010 I noticed and mentioned that Flacco was very slow in the drop back. Add to this he seems to process things a second or 2 too slow. A bad combination for timing and pass blocking. Not the great athlete many claim he is.

    5. Back in 2008/09 Ozzie said that an injured Demetrius Williams was the answer to our receiving problems. What has Williams done in this league since that statement? Is he even still in the league?? But that was Ozzie evaluation of Williams talent at the time when the need was so obvious to upgrade the position. Ozzie has been right in evaluations more than wrong overall since 96....but lately the misses are catching up fast with the hits. This past draft they used words like "antsy" and "reach" to describe some of their picks. Not a good sign. Talent and talent evaluation is a huge problem my friends and the major reason for the recent struggles.




  10. #46
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    Re: My U-G-L-Y Cameron got no alibi

    Was there one slant play at all in that game? They tried the screen 2x one time it was batted another was a TD but Cam left it and went back to his patent 20yrds deep patterns and out routes. No rub plays, no TE screens, no Rice screens, no creativity what so ever, I've never played a down in the NFL in my life and i predicted the offense.




  11. #47
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    Re: My U-G-L-Y Cameron got no alibi

    Quote Originally Posted by RavingMad View Post
    1. If you didn't see Flacco making audibles its because you don't want to see it to boost your excuses. I can call out at least three right now without re-watching the game. (Hand motions)..."the smoker" "the goatee pull down" and "the two hand ass pat".

    2. Talent is the major issue but the coaching staff's message is already stale (it seems) and the effort seems to be lacking by some players. IMO Cam and Pees should be let go. It's just time for a change more than anything (specifically Cam). Like I said it is more talent than scheme or should I say talent dictates scheme. In any case the morale on both sides seems to be suffering.

    3. I have said before that Jimmy Smith is a FS. His hips are stiff and his instincts don't fit the corner position. He can't stop peeking at the quarterback and biting on the double move.

    4. Back in 2010 I noticed and mentioned that Flacco was very slow in the drop back. Add to this he seems to process things a second or 2 too slow. A bad combination for timing and pass blocking. Not the great athlete many claim he is.

    5. Back in 2008/09 Ozzie said that an injured Demetrius Williams was the answer to our receiving problems. What has Williams done in this league since that statement? Is he even still in the league?? But that was Ozzie evaluation of Williams talent at the time when the need was so obvious to upgrade the position. Ozzie has been right in evaluations more than wrong overall since 96....but lately the misses are catching up fast with the hits. This past draft they used words like "antsy" and "reach" to describe some of their picks. Not a good sign. Talent and talent evaluation is a huge problem my friends and the major reason for the recent struggles.
    I agree with all of your points, especially #2. One thing people aren't discussing is the hangover effect from the AFCCG. You can only have so many bitter disappointments before disillusionment sets in and you stop hearing the message. Playoff exits are always painful but the last two seasons were especially brutal. First the Meltdown and the the Strip. You have to wonder if they are collectively starting to tune Harbs out.




  12. #48

    Re: My U-G-L-Y Cameron got no alibi

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Great post.

    Literally, if the cornerback knows what kind of routes are coming and they line up in press-man, it is exponentially easier for them to stay with the receiver. Even with the speed Torrey has, Flacco has to really put it out there for Torrey to have a chance at accelerating away from the defender and get to the ball. Those plays have such a low probability of completion, yet they are a fixture in this offense.

    If you watch the Patriots' offense you'll notice that Tom Brady hardly ever throws it past 15 yards and more often than not is looking at guys like Gronk, Hernandez, and Welker because they are getting out into space quickly. Brady puts the ball in their hands and lets them do their thing in space. It is just staggering to me how all of these other teams just have guys running all over the place, uncovered, and every Raven's receiver is blanketed arguably 9 out of 10 plays. The windows that Flacco has to throw to are insane and frankly it is unfair to Boldin, Pitta, and Torrey as well. How are they supposed to make plays when they've got guys draped all over them?

    And usually in stride, which is very important. Joe rarely hits a receiver in stride. His passes are usually too low or behind the receiver.




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