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  1. #16
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    Re: When was the last time...



    4G-
    I hear ya, mon ami, and I'm struggling to understand what's up with zero pass rush.

    Again, I understand that Pees is a new DC, and the defense is going to go thru a learning curve with new stuff he wants to do, and losing Suggs earlier this year, missing some key guys like JJ, Reed playing thru injury, Webb getting knocked out of the game, etc., stuff will happen. But how can the defense succesfully fool the Texans QB when there seems to be so little from the Ravens defenders in the way of deception, pre-snap movement, D-line stunts, etc.? I recall one play where you could see the secondary (corners, IIRC) pretend like they were going to drop into coverage, but their body language and "early" movement towards the LOS screamed, "I'm blitzing on this play, someone pick me up!!!" Sure enough, he blitzed, the Texans receiver was wide fu(*&^ing open on that side and I think made a huge gain on the pass play.

    To the issue of the OC not being able to make in-game adjustments, all I can think of is Harbaugh the emperor trying to convince the madding throngs that his haberdasher had him covered! It MUST be obvious to JH and the team that all is not in synch with Cameron, Flacco, and the overall offense on a consistent basis, and that if the team is going to evolve from a juggernaut on defense to a juggernaut on offense, something has to change, and big time, or the playoffs will not be an annual invitation for the Ravens.




  2. #17

    Re: When was the last time...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post
    It is baffling that the coaches tried to pass the ball in that situation.

    You are pressed that far back you need to just run the ball up the middle and give your QB some room. That was without a doubt a poor coaching decision. One that put pressure on them and put them behind the eight ball for the rest of the day. I wonder if Joe even throws the pick six if he hadn't been pressured into trying to make up for that safety.
    First of all, it's 3rd and 6. You're passing the ball, period, unless there's nobody in the box (and that wasn't the case.) You don't play offense to set up your punt, you play offense to score points.

    I have no problem passing the ball there, but you HAVE TO BLOCK GUYS. You ESPECIALLY have to block the blindside rusher, and nobody even touched Barwin.

    Ray Rice actually ran across Flacco's face and to the far side of the field to block on the right. Yeah... no. I have no idea what the blocking scheme was supposed to be there, but Rice needs to get out there and block Barwin. Whether it was Birk, Flacco, or if Rice had an option block on the route, somebody has to get that corrected pre-snap and it didn't happen.




  3. #18

    Re: When was the last time...

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    First of all, it's 3rd and 6. You're passing the ball, period, unless there's nobody in the box (and that wasn't the case.) You don't play offense to set up your punt, you play offense to score points.

    I have no problem passing the ball there, but you HAVE TO BLOCK GUYS. You ESPECIALLY have to block the blindside rusher, and nobody even touched Barwin.

    Ray Rice actually ran across Flacco's face and to the far side of the field to block on the right. Yeah... no. I have no idea what the blocking scheme was supposed to be there, but Rice needs to get out there and block Barwin. Whether it was Birk, Flacco, or if Rice had an option block on the route, somebody has to get that corrected pre-snap and it didn't happen.
    Playing for the punt is what most coaches do in that situation. You try to give your punter some room so he isn't short kicking it and risking a block giving up seven. If you run up the middle get a few yards so what, you punt they get the ball at their 40.

    What the Ravens did instead of playing for the punt was risky and they paid for it. They gave up two points and possession. Then they gave up a touchdown, got the ball back, and gave up a pick six. At that point the game was pretty much over.




  4. #19

    Re: When was the last time...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post
    Playing for the punt is what most coaches do in that situation. You try to give your punter some room so he isn't short kicking it and risking a block giving up seven. If you run up the middle get a few yards so what, you punt they get the ball at their 40.

    What the Ravens did instead of playing for the punt was risky and they paid for it. They gave up two points and possession. Then they gave up a touchdown, got the ball back, and gave up a pick six. At that point the game was pretty much over.
    Get real. It was 3rd and 6 at the 7, not 3rd and 14 at the 1. The average pass attempt in the NFL gains about 7 yards. You mean to tell me you don't have a pass play in your playbook to get 6 yards? It wasn't even a "risky" pass play--it was obviously a short sideline pattern out of the bunch formation, the ball would have come out quickly if the play were blocked correctly. The problem with the safety was one thing, and one thing only: FAILING TO BLOCK THE BLIND SIDE RUSHER.

    You wouldn't be complaining if the play worked. Conversely, if they ran the ball for a 2 yard gain at that down and distance, then punted and gave up a 40 yard scoring drive, you'd be complaining about playing it too conservatively.




  5. #20
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    Re: When was the last time...

    bmore-
    First, I have to disagree with your comment about setting up punts v. scoring points. When you're inside your own 10 yard line, I tend to believe that the idea is to get the ball out into an area of the field where the offense has less risk and more flexibility, not that you're thinking, "This could go all the way."

    But an honest question (and I assume we're all referring to the same play) - if it's 3rd and "only" 6 at your own 7 yard line, and you call a pass play and "you HAVE TO BLOCK GUYS", and "You ESPECIALLY have to block the blindside rusher", and the Ravens' blocking on that play's offense looked like a Chinese fire drill (and my sincere apolgies to anyone who may be offended by that term), and to that point Rice had rushed for 8, 2 and 17 yards while Veach had rushed for 6, why would you not call a Rice carry behind Veach blocking to your strongest side, hoping to get a 1st down or at least give the punter some additional room?

    Forgot to add - if it's 3rd and 6, why call a passplay with what seemed to be a slow developing route?




  6. #21
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    Jul 2011
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    Re: When was the last time...

    Our O line is pathetic at pass protection. Surely Cam knows this? Then would it not make sense to keep Leach in as a blocker/safety valve? He has proven recently that he has adequate hands and he is a solid blocker.




  7. #22

    Re: When was the last time...

    It's not effort. I don't know why people keep saying that...the players were out there trying.

    We just played a team that has some of the best depth in the cap era I can remember seeing.

    This was a team last year that won a playoff game with a 5th round rookie starting at QB, a WR hurt for half the year and one of the NFL's best pass rushers our for 3/4's of the year.

    How many teams/defenses can lose Mario freaking Williams and not miss a beat. They let go a good RT many of us REALLY wanted. We have been thrilled so far with 3 of their castoffs...guys they made absolutely zero effort to keep, they let go and kept rolling...in fact have gotten better!

    We ran into a team that was embarassed last week, and had revenge on their minds...much like we did with the Steelers last year.

    We just ran into a team that frankly, has more all around talent in it's prime than we do...and we needed to not make mistakes to win in their place. We made a ton of mistakes...and that is what you get.

    Ozzie's needs to spend the first 4-5 picks on the defensive side of the ball.

    Here is a quote from Glenn Warciski about Bill Walsh's philosophy on defense...and I'm probably going to make it my sig.

    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  8. #23

    Re: When was the last time...

    It isn't just that they decided to pass. Why have Flacco in the shotgun? They weren't looking for a safe play there, they were looking to go down the field deep. I can maybe see a quick screen or a quick out, but that isn't the play that was being set up. It was a boneheaded move and one that I doubt many teams in that position would call. Which is why you don't see a lot of safeties in the NFL.




  9. #24
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    Sep 2010
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    7,256

    Re: When was the last time...

    Quote Originally Posted by middleriverterp View Post
    NE AFC championship.
    Which stands out as an aberration.




  10. #25

    Re: When was the last time...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beau Petard View Post
    bmore-
    First, I have to disagree with your comment about setting up punts v. scoring points. When you're inside your own 10 yard line, I tend to believe that the idea is to get the ball out into an area of the field where the offense has less risk and more flexibility, not that you're thinking, "This could go all the way."

    But an honest question (and I assume we're all referring to the same play) - if it's 3rd and "only" 6 at your own 7 yard line, and you call a pass play and "you HAVE TO BLOCK GUYS", and "You ESPECIALLY have to block the blindside rusher", and the Ravens' blocking on that play's offense looked like a Chinese fire drill (and my sincere apolgies to anyone who may be offended by that term), and to that point Rice had rushed for 8, 2 and 17 yards while Veach had rushed for 6, why would you not call a Rice carry behind Veach blocking to your strongest side, hoping to get a 1st down or at least give the punter some additional room?

    Forgot to add - if it's 3rd and 6, why call a passplay with what seemed to be a slow developing route?
    Wrong on all counts. I was actually able to find some data on historical team play-calling tendencies at their own goal line: see http://www.advancednflstats.com/2012...goal-line.html

    From that article, teams run the ball on 3rd down inside their own 3 only 35% of the time! I don't know about what they do at their own 7, but at their own 3 they pass the ball 65% of the time (and, by the way, passing is a better option than running on all 3 downs.) The percentage of runs is sure to be lower at the 7 rather than the 3. So the point that "teams prefer to punt rather than try for the 1st down" is objectively wrong.

    Second of all, the pass play was not a terribly bad call. 3 man bunch right, with Pitta on the line, Jones outside, and Boldin behind. Boldin is running a short hook to the outside, Pitta and Jones are also running short sideline routes. Pitta and Jones both had enough yardage for the 1st, Boldin had some space to take a short pass for YAC. Overall, a good play for the down and distance.

    The Ravens kept Rice in to block, so they had 6 blockers facing 7 men on the line. 6 rushers come, so it should be straight man blocking the whole way. However, instead of Rice blocking left on Barwin, he cuts all the way across the field to help out with Brooks Reed on the right. If he would have stayed left the play would have worked.




  11. #26
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    Re: When was the last time...

    b-more-
    Not sure what you mean by "Wrong on all counts..." since I only had one disagreement with you, the rest are honest questions.
    You said that "You don't play offense to set up your punt, you play offense to score points", and I disagreed. In fact, the 1st sentence by the author at your link says, "It's a common practice in the NFL that when your team is backed up against your own goal line, you run the ball to "give some breathing room."" Other than the tongue-in-cheek comment at the end of the article, I stand by my original post on getting the LOS away from the goal line as I stated.

    Also, I apologize that I'm not more familiar with that site. The other thing I would challenge is the concept called "efficiency". Do they mean that it is a positive gain, or is there another part to this? In other words, does being efficient mean th eteam gained a first down, or just positive yard(s), or other?




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