Whistling Past The Graveyard

[pslholder96]

The pass defense concerns me. What was viewed as a strength heading into the season has become a glaring weakness. I'm encouraged by Williams getting two picks during the past two games though. He might be turning the corner. And I don't care what he says, he's not fully recovered from that hip procedure. He's even more stiff than he was last year. I see him getting back to form by the bye week.

Might be some truth to this because Cary too often has his back to the ball. Maybe he just consciously avoiding the need to keep turning those hips.

[lobachevsky]

...the 1 unit that looks really good is the running backs group. Rice has been great. Leach is still the best fullback in the NFL and the rookie looks better every game. That group is really playing top level football.

Good point. Maybe the game planning would benefit from a bigger dose of rockpounding. It would probably help settle the OL down.

This team will make the playoffs, but it sure is beginning to look like they will die within sight of the SB yet again.

Agree, unless they figure out how to work around some of the problems we've all seen. I'm frustrated & will stay that way until & unless I see some sign that's happening; I'm hoping some of you guys can point out grounds for optimism that I may be missing. GOTA made a good start.

This team is a bit frustrating, but don't you think you are setting the bar a bit high when 4-1 gets a 7 paragraph rant on how bad we are?

If that's what you took out of the "7-paragraph rant," then I failed to make myself clear. I'm delighted that the team is 4-1 (& one bullshit OPI call from 5-0) despite all the issues, with a realistic shot at going into bye week no worse than 5-2. But sooner or later those issues are going to cost them games. I'm looking for evidence they'll be dealt with before that happens, I'm not seeing any, & I was hoping y'all might point out some things I missed (cf. GOTA).

We are such a bad football team, absolutely ZERO reason for optimism. Just nothing that comes to mind...at all. 53 bums out there completely devoid of talent. Smoke and mirrors.

Might go 2-9 to finish out the season.

:grbac: Looks like it's time to remind everyone (including some that put themselves forth as experts) that the Ravens started the 2007 season 4-2...& proceeded to lose the next 9 games. Even before that streak there were some signs ominously similar to what we've seen this year--an away victory in Game 5 (@SFO) scoring only 3 FGs, and a game won on a FG as time expired (Week 3 vs Arizona). (You could look it up.) "Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it." (Santayana)

You know the issues as well as any of us--you see any signs that they're being addressed, point 'em out. (Or just keep sniping, mir ist's egal.)

[NOLARavenFAN]

To me, yes it has. I attribute the poor pass defense numbers to a lack of a pass rush more than anything else. Yes, I would like to see the Ravens CBs play press coverage a lot more (considering how big they are), but it is very difficult to cover NFL WRs when the opposing QB has all day to throw the ball. Suggs coming back might be able to help the pass rush, which will help the pass defense numbers. I just don't see Suggs being anywhere near as big of a difference maker in the run defense.

The Chiefs were getting almost all of their yardage between the tackles yesterday. This was just power football, with the Ravens DL and LBs just getting beat physically. The Ravens were putting eight men in the box in the second half which helped to shut down KCs running attack. If KC had an even decent passing attack, the Ravens defense would have been exposed much worse then they were yesterday.

KC is a better fundamental team that folks give them credit for......they played well upfront, and didn't mail it in. In a few weeks teams will start to mail it in, then pull it together for the last two games or so......

[LukeDaniel]

The Ravens entered the game allowing 3.2 yard per carry. That was 3rd best in the entire NFL. You're concerned about a team that ranks in the top 10% in run defense? Why? I think you are letting your emotions form your opinion, and not your brain.

That KC rush offense was such a juggernaut yesterday, right? A whole whopping 4.28 yard per carry...how on earth can we survive?

Again, if anyone would actually take two seconds to research something before they open their mouths and make a fool of themselves, they discover that:

a) KC led the NFL in rushing entering yesterday's game.

b) Yesterday's game was the closest that a team has come to shutting down the Chief rushing attack all year.

Week 1- Atlanta- 4.61
Week 2- Buffalo-6.25
Week 3- New Orleans-6.07
Week 4- San Diego-5.23


There are 26 or 27 teams in the NFL right now who would LOVE to have the Raven rush defense right now. Saying anything other than that spits in the face of all the factual data available to us.

[Dirt1]

There are 26 or 27 teams in the NFL right now who would LOVE to have the Raven rush defense right now. Saying anything other than that spits in the face of all the factual data available to us.

So you are saying that you feel the Ravens have a Top 5 rush defense? Then why are the Ravens ranked 20th in the league in rushing defense and 24th in the league in total defense? Those are not defensive rankings that the Ravens are used to posting.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...1&d-447263-n=1

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...1&d-447263-n=1

[wickedsolo]

There is definitely reason for optimism.

A 4-1 record against 2 divisional rivals (who always play us tough), 2 SB contenders (New England & Eagles), and a team with two of the best pass rushers in the league and arguably a top 3 RB.

I got news for you guys, this schedule is going to be tough and there are no cakewalk teams this year. The reality is that Oakland may be the worst team the Ravens face all year long and they're still a pretty good ball club and Darren McFadden is nothing to overlook.

Championship caliber teams are built through tough wins and adversity. I'm not saying that the Ravens don't need to get better - they absolutely do - however what I am saying is that this team has the character to win those tough games where nothing is going their way and (not to make excuses) outside of one really questionable call in Philly, a 5-0 record really is not that outlandish to say that they should be at right now.

There are a lot of young guys who are starting on both sides of the ball right now and it is a trial by fire type of thing. They're going to take their lumps, but as long as they can take their lumps and still win games then come January you're going to have a very young team with a ton of experience. That's a good thing.

[LukeDaniel]

:grbac: Looks like it's time to remind everyone (including some that put themselves forth as experts) that the Ravens started the 2007 season 4-2...& proceeded to lose the next 9 games. Even before that streak there were some signs ominously similar to what we've seen this year--an away victory in Game 5 (@SFO) scoring only 3 FGs, and a game won on a FG as time expired (Week 3 vs Arizona). (You could look it up.) "Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it." (Santayana)

[/I])

The 2007 Ravens had Steve McNair at QB, who couldn't throw the ball more than 15-20 yards by mid-season. He was throwing 12 yard outs at the feet of receivers by week 3 or 4. Boller was our backup. Clayton and Mason were our wide receivers and Devard Darling spent most of the year as our #3 guy. Todd Heap only played 6 games and his backup was the mighty.....Quinn Sypniewski. Our backup running back was Musa Smith. Ray Lewis missed two games. Chris McAlister 8. Samari Rolle 10. Trevor Pryce missed 11. Ogden missed 6.

Heck, we were so banged up that Corey Ivy started 13 games at CB for us and we actually had three games where our starting CB combo was Ivy and Derrick Martin.

So far, the Ravens have lost one game to injury off their active roster (Kruger vs. Philly). Unless our roster gets totally decimated next week, you can't compare the two situations. Furthermore, this 2012 Ravens team is FAR more talented at QB, RB, WR, and TE than in 2007. Down the stretch in 2007, the O-line, sans Ogden was probably worse than our O-line this year. That year, we started a rookie (Yanda) at RT, had Adam Terry (out of the league within 2 years) at LT, had Mike Flynn (in his last NFL year at C), and rookie Grubbs and Jason Brown at the G positions. Brown was good and Grubbs and Yanda would eventually be good, but I think this year's O-line, despite the struggles is still more talented.

There is no comparison to the talent level, particularly on offense, of that team to the one you see this year. That Raven team lost 9 in a row due to an unprecedented rash of injuries and a lack of depth. This year's team has neither problem.

That team was also the inverse of this year's team in terms of defensive efficiency (perhaps a result of the injuries). They were 6th in yards allowed, 2nd in first downs allowed, yet 22nd in points allowed.

They just aren't comparative. I think it's a bit reckless to take a healthy team that has had a few small bumps along the road to their 4-1 start and use the 2007 team as a template to say that things could head downhill dramatically soon.

[Sirdowski]

"Staying with you gave us something to do
I almost thought it was true for a while
'cause there's love in your lies
You're so thinly disguised
You couldn't tell right from wrong if you tried

And we're going through the motions (x4)

It's a game, it's a game
No let's call it a shame
'cause there's no one to blame just to pay
You were a friend for a day
So don't cry if I say
That you got what you want, it's ok"

[LukeDaniel]

So you are saying that you feel the Ravens have a Top 5 rush defense? Then why are the Ravens ranked 20th in the league in rushing defense and 24th in the league in total defense? Those are not defensive rankings that the Ravens are used to posting.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...1&d-447263-n=1

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...1&d-447263-n=1

I guess you haven't been reading the 39 other threads where we've been discussing this, huh?

You are looking at quantitative stats, not the truly meaningful qualitative ones. The Ravens have allowed more plays to their opponents than plays run every game this year, but one.

Week 1- Cincy 65 Balt 55
Week 2- Philly 73 Balt 63
Week 3- NE 75 Balt 65
Week 4- CLE 69 Balt 73
Week 5- KC 68 Balt 51

The high yardage figures we are seeing are because our defense is facing far more plays than they should, which is naturally going to lead to higher yardage surrendered totals. This is not due to their 3rd down stop %, which is middle of the pack. It is due to the offenses inability to control the ball for long. When the offense is scoring, it's very quickly. When they are not, there are some extremely quick possessions.

If you look at the real stats...the stats that matter....the Ravens are in the top 10 in every one of them.

Points allowed per game- 7th

Rush Yards per attempt- 6th

Opposing QB rating- 8th

TDs allowed/game- 6th

Passing TDs allowed- Tied for 1st

Also, despite allowing the 4th most rush carries in the NFL this year (170), the Ravens are tied for 5th with only allowing 2 runs of 20+ yards.


If you look at the elite defenses of this season so far (I'll pick CHI, HOU, SEA, and SF) their # of defensive snaps are so much lower than the Ravens that it's no surprise that they are well ahead of them in total yards allowed.

The Ravens have faced 359 defensive plays so far this year (71.8/game)

Chicago- 308-61.6
Seattle- 294-58.8
San Francisco-58.6
Houston- 232-58

Since the Ravens are facing, on average 10-12 more defensive snaps per game, wouldn't it seem logical that they would be a good distance behind those teams in Yards allowed? Of course.

[Dirt1]

I Since the Ravens are facing, on average 10-12 more defensive snaps per game, wouldn't it seem logical that they would be a good distance behind those teams in Yards allowed? Of course.

Gee, could it just be possible that the reason the Ravens defense is facing more defensive snaps per game is because THEY CAN'T GET OFF THE FIELD!? The Chiefs had a a drive where they ran something like 14 consecutive running plays, ate up a ton of clock and marched down the field. Everyone watching that game knew that the Chiefs were going to run the ball, and they still moved the ball effectively. The Chiefs lost that game because of their turnovers, not because they couldn't move the ball on the Ravens defense.

FWIW, all I have said is that I am concerned about the Ravens defense, not that they can't improve, or won't improve, or that they cannot go far this year. The Ravens are currently ranked 24th in the NFL in total defense. That is not something that the Ravens themselves should be happy with. I am sure that they are not happy with their own performance.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I share an office with a Giants fan who spent all of last year complaining and whining about how his secondary couldn't cover anybody and how they couldn't run the ball and wanting his coach and GM fired because they didn't play well when he thought they should.

Excuse me if I have hope for a team that has shown that they can beat the elite teams on the road in the regular season and playoffs over the last 4 years.

There are probably 2 fan bases that would really have to stretch to find things to complain about...the Texans and Falcons (and probably can take the Falcons off that list because I'm sure there are Falcons fans bitching this morning about how close their last 2 games were even though they won). Every other team has significant problems that people complain about.

To have people saying "this is why we won't win the Superbowl" after week 5 is WAY over the top, over dramatic and dumb. Despite it all...and we definitely have things that the team is working hard to improve on...we are in very, very good position here and frankly, are no worse at this checkpoint than 95 percent of the league.

We beat every single team with a winning record that we faced last year...including everybody's scary 3 words of the week "on the road". To try and use last year as a reason why we can't beat good teams on the road...there is nothing there to support that opinion.

[LukeDaniel]

Gee, could it just be possible that the reason the Ravens defense is facing more defensive snaps per game is because THEY CAN'T GET OFF THE FIELD!? The Chiefs had a a drive where they ran something like 14 consecutive running plays, ate up a ton of clock and marched down the field. Everyone watching that game knew that the Chiefs were going to run the ball, and they still moved the ball effectively. The Chiefs lost that game because of their turnovers, not because they couldn't move the ball on the Ravens defense.

Again, Ravens are league average in 3rd down conversion rate (16th). Even though they are 4th-to-last in plays run per game against them, they are nowhere near that pace in 3rd down conversion rate. They have also only allowed 8 TDs in 5 games, hardly a point of concern.

They have allowed the T4th most first downs per game this year (23.6). Most of the elite teams are around 17 per game, so there is clear room for improvement there. However, the Ravens are the only team among the 7 worse in first downs/game who are averaging less than 400 yards per game and they are over 20 yards per game under that threshold (379.1). So while the teams allowing a high ratio of 1st downs per game are also giving up a lot of big plays, the Ravens are not. I'm not 100% sure what that means, other that it seems that the Ravens seem to be giving up more shorter yardage plays while doing a great job of staying away from the home runs. Whether that is designed or a feature of luck is something I couldn't possibly determine.

They also seem to be defending the goal line very well in relation to their number of yards allowed. They've also forced a number of turnovers in their own defensive territory as well.