Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 106
  1. #91

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!



    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Yes I am pissed, that despite the fact that Philly looked like one of the worst teams in the league, the Refs allowed their DB's to RAPE our WR's all game, and then called a ticky tack OPI on JOnes on our winning touchdown. To compound that, they allow Vick to do what, apparently follows the rules as written, but couldn't have possibly been a more perfect representation of the SPIRIT of the grounding rule. He basically DROPPED the ball right before hitting the ground and it's an incomplete pass? that's ridiculous. The rule is worded poorly, fact.
    I'm pissed too, but come on...the league has been going with the literal interpretation for ever because it takes judgmental opinions out of the equation.

    That's why I brought up the tuck rule...EVERYBODY knew that was a fumble....everybody. But the league goes with the literal interpretation...that's what they instruct their refs to do.




  2. #92

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    YOu are trying to say 5 men are 18 feet wide, shoulder to shoulder? Try half that, even 300 poounders. How they are currently lined up they can probably squeeze entire people into each hole. Thus they DOUBLE the width of the pocket, when being in the pocket is a HUGELY negative thing.
    LOL. "Half that." Nonsense. Measure your own width shoulder to shoulder. Mine is 24 inches without pads and I am 5'11", about 170 lbs. 300 lbs plus huge shoulder pads is easily approaching 36 inches per person. Plus elbow room to get down (few inches between each guy).

    Also there are small advantages to being in the pocket, regarding roughing the passer rules.
    Last edited by Haloti92; 09-18-2012 at 08:41 PM.




  3. #93

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    FWIW, I see how some people may have had that initial opinion of grounding, but taking into account what happened Sunday, I can name 10-15 things that piss me off WAY more than a potential missed grounding call.




  4. #94

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    It also cuts off half the field.

    These OC's aren't stupid...if they felt there was a competitve advantage to just rolling QB's out for the sole purpose of being able to throw the ball away, they obviously don't have much confidence in their QB's to complete passes or their OL to protect.

    Have some people not seen how the league has been trying to protect QB's to an absurd degree? That rule was put in long ago to give QB's some protection...instead of having to take a hit or grounding call, it gave them an out. And the NFL tried to take as much of the judgement out of calling it by giving the refs a defined, set area to work with at the snap as opposed to having to keep track of where linemen windup over the course of a play.
    The way it is, they might as well just say that QB's are immune to fumbles and sacks. Just eliminate the whole pocket verbage, take all the guesswork out and say if the ball leaves a QB's hands and hits the ground it's incomplete. Because when you the brain out of the referee you end up with ridiculous crap like this. Dude dropped the ball because he was in the process of getting pounded into the turf and he gets the ball at the previous spot for some completely insane reason.




  5. #95

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I'm pissed too, but come on...the league has been going with the literal interpretation for ever because it takes judgmental opinions out of the equation.

    That's why I brought up the tuck rule...EVERYBODY knew that was a fumble....everybody. But the league goes with the literal interpretation...that's what they instruct their refs to do.
    Don't get me started on the tuck rule... that's one pof the most ridiculous calls in all of pro-sports history. It was a CLEAR gimme to the Pats... I'm one of the conspiracy theorists that think someone in the league offices must have made that call. Complete and utter lunacy.




  6. #96

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    FWIW, I see how some people may have had that initial opinion of grounding, but taking into account what happened Sunday, I can name 10-15 things that piss me off WAY more than a potential missed grounding call.
    Agreed, there are plenty of worse things about that game, the primary to me was the complete inequality in the way PIs and defensive holding was called. Reminds me COMPLETELY of the Colts Pats playoff game where the Refs allowed the Pats to interfere with basically every receiver on basically every snap of the game.

    BUt don't forget, this play turned out to be the gamewinner. And by the SPIRIT of the rule was EXACTLY why tere is such a thing as grouding. He intentionally threw the ball in the ground to avoid a sack. PERIOD, it's what he did, what he tried to do and I don't need to be in his head to know that, it is plain and obvious as the night is dark.
    Last edited by jonboy79; 09-18-2012 at 05:39 PM.




  7. #97
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Right Where I need to be
    Posts
    1,573

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Agreed, there are plenty of worse things about that game, the primary to me was the complete inequality in the way PIs and defensive holding was called. Reminds me COMPLETELY of the Colts Pats playoff game where the Refs allowed the Pats to interfere with basically every receiver on basically every snap of the game.

    BUt don't forget, this play turned out to be the gamewinner. And by the SPIRIT of the rule was EXACTLY why tere is such a thing as grouding. He intentionally threw the ball in the ground to avoid a sack. PERIOD, it's what he did, what he tried to do and I don't need to be in his head to know that, it is plain and obvious as the night is dark.
    BOOM!!! Booo YAAA Right on!! Umm What else can I add... SHAZAM. KA-POW




  8. #98

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    BUt don't forget, this play turned out to be the gamewinner. And by the SPIRIT of the rule was EXACTLY why tere is such a thing as grouding. He intentionally threw the ball in the ground to avoid a sack. PERIOD, it's what he did, what he tried to do and I don't need to be in his head to know that, it is plain and obvious as the night is dark.
    I don't think it was a gamewinner...they didn't score any points.

    And the last statement is an opinion.




  9. #99
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Right Where I need to be
    Posts
    1,573

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I don't think it was a gamewinner...they didn't score any points.

    And the last statement is an opinion.
    So is most of yours!!!! You both agree to disagree. But your THEORY on the tackle box Geesh..




  10. #100

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensQB View Post
    So is most of yours!!!! You both agree to disagree. But your THEORY on the tackle box Geesh..
    LOL...you have a problem with how the league views the tackle box, take it up with them.

    This rule has existed for a decade and a half and it was put in for safety reasons. Regarding the tackle box only, every team benefits from it, even the Ravens and Joe.

    The only questionble part of that play was whether Vick had zero intention of getting it to McCoy or not. And in the end the rule that it can't be grounding because he was getting hit makes it moot.

    But my "theory" of the tackle box is not a theory at all. It's a fact that is in the rule book...whether you think it's a bullshit rule or not.




  11. #101
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,547
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    LOL...you have a problem with how the league views the tackle box, take it up with them.

    This rule has existed for a decade and a half and it was put in for safety reasons. Regarding the tackle box only, every team benefits from it, even the Ravens and Joe.

    The only questionble part of that play was whether Vick had zero intention of getting it to McCoy or not. And in the end the rule that it can't be grounding because he was getting hit makes it moot.

    But my "theory" of the tackle box is not a theory at all. It's a fact that is in the rule book...whether you think it's a bullshit rule or not.
    This one is real simple it was either a fumble or incomplete pass. More than willing to rip the zebra's for their performance on Sunday but per NFL rules there cannot be intentional grounding if the QB is hit in the act of throwing. The intention of the clause is to prevent an ugly throw affected by a SIMULTANEOUS hit to be ruled as intentional grounding if the QB meant to throw to a receiver but the hit changes the trajectory of the ball

    If you watch the play in slow motion it seems he was throwing the ball after being hit which would be intentional grounding. That said in real time which the refs see the play it is not so cut and dry. The play throw and hit are close enough to warrant not throwing a flag on that. Had they thrown one on Flacco for a similar play we would all be up in arms. When reviewing the play the officials cannot call a penalty. It was either a fumble or incomplete pass and anyone watching that can tell it was not a fumble if they are objective IMO.

    Give Vick some credit. It was good game awareness and smart play.
    A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,
    -Ray Lewis




  12. #102

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I don't think it was a gamewinner...they didn't score any points.

    And the last statement is an opinion.
    Let me rephrase then...
    If it had been grounding, the game is all but over. Since it was not, they were in a far easier scoring position. The chance of Ravens victory was at best 50/50 with no call, and would have been more in line with 90 percent had it been called an intentional grounding.

    It may be an opinion, but no matter how many times I watch it I can't see how anyone else on the planet could possibly think differently. There is no way he was attempting to complete a pass, he was avoiding a sack by throwing at the ground.

    I can admit that it likely was called correctly per the rules, but to me, much like the tuck rule, it exposes the weakness in the rule. Apparently NFL network says there is no grounding if the QB is getting hit, so all QB's should now intentionally ground every signle time they are being sacked outside the tackle boxm, even if they are still clearly in the pocket. Again, by the spirit of the rule, that was textbook grounding.




  13. #103
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,547
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Let me rephrase then...
    If it had been grounding, the game is all but over. Since it was not, they were in a far easier scoring position. The chance of Ravens victory was at best 50/50 with no call, and would have been more in line with 90 percent had it been called an intentional grounding.

    It may be an opinion, but no matter how many times I watch it I can't see how anyone else on the planet could possibly think differently. There is no way he was attempting to complete a pass, he was avoiding a sack by throwing at the ground.

    I can admit that it likely was called correctly per the rules, but to me, much like the tuck rule, it exposes the weakness in the rule. Apparently NFL network says there is no grounding if the QB is getting hit, so all QB's should now intentionally ground every signle time they are being sacked outside the tackle boxm, even if they are still clearly in the pocket. Again, by the spirit of the rule, that was textbook grounding.
    Oh I totally agree the rules are little goofy but they are the rules. Personally I think the real answer to the issue is to have a shorter clock on the whole "in the grasp" rule. You dont have to get crazy about it. Most people with common sense can tell when the QB just chucked it cause he was getting dragged down. A Defense should not be penalized for that and by calling it an incomplete pass its rewarding the offense. Right now the QB's have it all their way, if you keep trying to make a play its a 15yd roughing call, if you lay off then they just chuck it somewhere and the D is not rewarded at all for a fine defensive play.
    A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,
    -Ray Lewis




  14. #104

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenous1 View Post
    Oh I totally agree the rules are little goofy but they are the rules. Personally I think the real answer to the issue is to have a shorter clock on the whole "in the grasp" rule. You dont have to get crazy about it. Most people with common sense can tell when the QB just chucked it cause he was getting dragged down. A Defense should not be penalized for that and by calling it an incomplete pass its rewarding the offense. Right now the QB's have it all their way, if you keep trying to make a play its a 15yd roughing call, if you lay off then they just chuck it somewhere and the D is not rewarded at all for a fine defensive play.
    I think another rule change that makes sense is to draw 2 lines down the field, 2-5 yards outside the hash marks. Inside those lines, you have to throw it within 10 yards of an eligible receiver, outside you can throw it out of bounds with no target. Don't bother with having to throw it past the line of scrimmage, and if your arm hasn't started moving forward before getting hit, it is grounding if it's not a complete pass.




  15. #105
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ellicott City
    Posts
    306

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    OK- I just got back online, and I haven't read every response- but I don't think either of those rules apply in this case:

    Item 2: Physical Contact. Intentional grounding should not be called if:
    (a) the passer initiates his passing motion toward an eligible receiver and then is significantly affected
    by physical contact from a defensive player that causes the pass to land in an area that is not in the
    direction and vicinity of an eligible receiver; or
    (b) the passer is out of the pocket, and his passing motion is significantly affected by physical contact
    from a defensive player that causes the ball to land short of the line of scrimmage.
    Read my original post on the topic- these exceptions pre-suppose that the QB was already attemting to pass, and THEN becomes contacted. THAT IS NOT THE CASE HERE! The passer did NOT initiate the passing and THEN became hit. He was first hit, and then decided to pass.

    Vick was contacted FIRST and was about to hit the ground, and THEN decided to fling the ball TO AVOID THE SACK. That is the difference. That is the whole point of grounding- to not be able to chuck it away when you know that you are going to be tackled. I'm not even going to dignify the second point since I don't even think he was outside of the pocket.

    And fyi- I don't even think that they would have had the power to overturn it anyway (and throw a grounding flag)- since they stupidly ruled it a fumble.




Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Russell Street Report Website Design by D3Corp Ocean City Maryland