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  1. #16

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!



    knowing these refs they probably believe as long as the ball rolls past the line of scrimmage its OK. I didn;t hink vick was out ot the tackle box but the announcers never broght up the issue either.




  2. #17

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    When someone is dragging you to the ground as you throw the ball forward, I would like to see you throw it where you want to.

    In order to take judgement calls out of the game, that was rightly called an incomplete pass.

    No objective viewer thinks that was intentional grounding. Hell, most Ravens fans don't either.




  3. #18

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    [QUOTE=Raveninwoodlawn;488443]When someone is dragging you to the ground as you throw the ball forward, I would like to see you throw it where you want to.

    In order to take judgement calls out of the game, that was rightly called an incomplete pass.

    No objective viewer thinks that was intentional grounding. Hell, most Ravens fans don't either.[/QUOTE]

    With the Op being in the minority..smh




  4. #19
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    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    When someone is dragging you to the ground as you throw the ball forward, I would like to see you throw it where you want to.

    In order to take judgement calls out of the game, that was rightly called an incomplete pass.

    No objective viewer thinks that was intentional grounding. Hell, most Ravens fans don't either.
    But thats the point. You're not supposed to be able to just push the ball forward in the midst of being hit to no one in order to avoid a sack. The ball never reached the 1 yard line (LOS) which meant it was grounding. However, because it was originally called incorrectly, they couldn't call grounding.




  5. #20

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    I thought it was intentional grounding. In fact, I thought that's exactly the kind of play for which they introduced the concept of intentional grounding.

    It was the worst-officiated football game I've ever seen, at any level. Setting aside the bad calls and non-calls, the inability of the refs to move smoothly from one play to the next was a disgrace to the NFL.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  6. #21

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    I can't believe this thread still has legs




  7. #22

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by pslholder96 View Post
    I can't believe this thread still has legs
    Feel free to go discuss important things like Cam Cameron in some other thread, if you want.

    /shrug
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  8. #23

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    But thats the point. You're not supposed to be able to just push the ball forward in the midst of being hit to no one in order to avoid a sack. The ball never reached the 1 yard line (LOS) which meant it was grounding. However, because it was originally called incorrectly, they couldn't call grounding.
    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    I thought it was intentional grounding. In fact, I thought that's exactly the kind of play for which they introduced the concept of intentional grounding.

    It was the worst-officiated football game I've ever seen, at any level. Setting aside the bad calls and non-calls, the inability of the refs to move smoothly from one play to the next was a disgrace to the NFL.
    How many times have QB's like Vick and Ben completed passes while being hit like that?

    And you are COMPLETELY leaving it up to a judgemental call there. Who's to say if he wasn't getting hit/dragged down that the ball would have made it to the LOS, or even to McCoy who was standing in the corner on that side at the goal line?

    The rules are set up to try and take those judgemental calls out...that's why there is the tuck rule.

    I don't have a problem with the call, and those plays that happen like that are RARELY, if ever called intentional grounding by the other refs or whatever.




  9. #24

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    Feel free to go discuss important things like Cam Cameron in some other thread, if you want.

    /shrug
    Nah. I'll keep posting here. Thanks




  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    The regular refs wouldn't have ruled it a fumble. It was obvious it wasn't a fumble. The ball went like 10 yards forward.
    Fumbles can't go forward?

    Everyone at the bar I was at yesterday thought it was a fumble. Once we saw the replay though, it was clear we were wrong.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #26

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    The bottom line is that you cannot control what the officials call.

    There will ALWAYS be bad calls in NFL games.

    What was in our control with the game in our hands was that absolute clusterfuck of a final drive by our offense...amateur hour by Cam/John/Joe at it's finest.




  12. #27
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    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    How many times have QB's like Vick and Ben completed passes while being hit like that?

    And you are COMPLETELY leaving it up to a judgemental call there. Who's to say if he wasn't getting hit/dragged down that the ball would have made it to the LOS, or even to McCoy who was standing in the corner on that side at the goal line?

    The rules are set up to try and take those judgemental calls out...that's why there is the tuck rule.

    I don't have a problem with the call, and those plays that happen like that are RARELY, if ever called intentional grounding by the other refs or whatever.
    While you are right, the whole "ball needs to get to the line of scrimmage" aspect is there to prevent a judgement call. Was he making a throwing motion? Yes. Did the ball reach the line of scrimmage? No. Was there anyone in the area? No. Therefore it's grounding. Grounding is a judgement call to begin with, so it is what it is with those penalties. It's not like the ref ever REALLY knows whether or not he meant ti INTENTIONALLY ground the ball.




  13. #28

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    The bottom line is that you cannot control what the officials call.

    There will ALWAYS be bad calls in NFL games.

    What was in our control with the game in our hands was that absolute clusterfuck of a final drive by our offense...amateur hour by Cam/John/Joe at it's finest.
    I agree 100%, the Ravens had 100 opportunities to win the game that had nothing to do with the referees.

    But the debacle with this fumble/incomplete pass/intentional grounding matters because it is such damning evidence of the quality of the officiating.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  14. #29

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    While you are right, the whole "ball needs to get to the line of scrimmage" aspect is there to prevent a judgement call. Was he making a throwing motion? Yes. Did the ball reach the line of scrimmage? No. Was there anyone in the area? No. Therefore it's grounding. Grounding is a judgement call to begin with, so it is what it is with those penalties. It's not like the ref ever REALLY knows whether or not he meant ti INTENTIONALLY ground the ball.
    How is that fair?

    If Vick is standing in the pocket, gets hit in the back as he throws and the ball flies out sideways (but forward enough to be a forward pass) and doesn't get to the LOS, is that intentional grounding? A play we all typically see 1 or 2 times a game?

    When a guy is being hit, the force of the hit can COMPLETELY change the trajectory of the throw. You can't call that intentional grounding.




  15. #30

    Re: Arm going Forwad, Hmmm Intentional Grounding!?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    When someone is dragging you to the ground as you throw the ball forward, I would like to see you throw it where you want to.

    In order to take judgement calls out of the game, that was rightly called an incomplete pass.

    No objective viewer thinks that was intentional grounding. Hell, most Ravens fans don't either.
    Huh?

    I have yet to talk to another Ravens fan who didn't see it as intentional grounding. Vick's actions were fully in accord with the NFL rulebook definition of intentional grounding:

    Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, while out of the pocket and facing an imminent loss of yardage, throws a pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including if the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or end line).

    This wasn't even close call. I was not a bit surprised that the fumble call was reversed, but fully expected to see the intentional grounding call made after the review.
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