So, any OL doubters turning into believers now?

[bmorecareful]

Answer me this:

If Oher sucks (for the most part) as a pass blocker on the left side, why would he be better on the right side?

This.

The answer for Oher isn't a move to the right side, he's been terrible at both tackle spots since his rookie year. I don't know why he regressed so much from a good rookie year, but the OL as a whole was excellent that year and maybe his good play was just a byproduct of the line having a good year overall.

The answer for Oher is a move to the inside, which would mask his critical mental and physical deficiencies. Oher just can't handle playing on an island mentally, IMO. He is far too tentative and afraid of getting beat which causes him to get beat. Guard is a much, much better fit for his strength, physicality, and movement skills. This is a move that needs to happen.

Since Oher is under contract for one more year, move him to LG, keep KO at RT as long as he shows signs of improving through the offseason, and go get a LT. The line would become so much better.

[wickedsolo]

This.

The answer for Oher isn't a move to the right side, he's been terrible at both tackle spots since his rookie year. I don't know why he regressed so much from a good rookie year, but the OL as a whole was excellent that year and maybe his good play was just a byproduct of the line having a good year overall.

The answer for Oher is a move to the inside, which would mask his critical mental and physical deficiencies. Oher just can't handle playing on an island mentally, IMO. He is far too tentative and afraid of getting beat which causes him to get beat. Guard is a much, much better fit for his strength, physicality, and movement skills. This is a move that needs to happen.

Since Oher is under contract for one more year, move him to LG, keep KO at RT as long as he shows signs of improving through the offseason, and go get a LT. The line would become so much better.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, I think Harbaugh is a big deterrent in that possibility. He is very risk averse and the reality is - financially - the only LT that they could legitimately get is through the draft...and that may be too risky for Harbs to sign off on.

[Bhcforlife]

Answer me this:

If Oher sucks (for the most part) as a pass blocker on the left side, why would he be better on the right side?

He's facing a different type of player, for the most part. I know teams flip flop their DE/OLBs on occasion but generally speaking, he's not going to see a lot of Von Miller or James Harrison playing RT. Plus, the footwork and mechanics are different and it could be that he's just more comfortable there.

I am looking at trying to make the best of a bad situation, really. I would take my chances with Oher there over Osemele, seems a lot of people are impressed with Osemele so I guess I'm in the minority there.

[Bhcforlife]

Was not aware that Oher "sucked" at RT. Not trying to argue anything but the general consensus here prior to this year was that he was an above average RT, for the most part, who had a great first year in 2009 and a decent second year there last year. Not sure how that changes when he hasn't played at RT this year?

[wickedsolo]

He's facing a different type of player, for the most part. I know teams flip flop their DE/OLBs on occasion but generally speaking, he's not going to see a lot of Von Miller or James Harrison playing RT. Plus, the footwork and mechanics are different and it could be that he's just more comfortable there.

I am looking at trying to make the best of a bad situation, really. I would take my chances with Oher there over Osemele, seems a lot of people are impressed with Osemele so I guess I'm in the minority there.

I wasn't trying to be confrontational. I just see a lot of people making this claim that Oher sucks at LT, but would be an average or decent RT...

Last I checked almost every team has pass rushers on both sides of the ball. Von Miller mostly lines up over the RT because Elvis Dummerville is over the LT.

The mechanics are different and the footwork is different, but you still have to be able to react to a pass rusher's moves and it seems that is where Oher is lacking, IMO.

I just don't think he is ever going to be a decent player in space.

[Haloti92]

Reacting to pass rushers is also where Flacco needs to improve. I can agree that our line is average to below-average at pass protection (but nowhere near as bad as people claim). But it also looks worse due to its supporting cast. It suffers from the same problems of vanilla, slow-developing routes and predictable formations and play-calling as well. It also suffers from Flacco's below-average performance under pass-rush pressure. Obviously he isn't as mobile or athletic as an Aaron Rodgers or even a Romo, and not quite the war horse as Roethlisberger, but he could definitely improve his subtle shifting/sliding in the pocket like immobile Brady or Peyton or even Eli.

The bottomline for me is that the precentage of times a decent rush equals a terrible result for us on any given play should not be so close to 100%. It isn't that high for most other teams, even if we stipulate we have more plays where we feel the rush (which again is debatable; many other teams have their QB under similar or worse fire, especially vs the Steelers and Broncos of the league).

[BigPlayReceiver]

We need to secure one good tackle this spring...just one...b/c right now there isn't one on the roster. Everyone sees that right?

FA option: Cut salary, restructure where possible, and grab KC's Brendan Albert, for example, if he hits the market. He's good and won't be quite as expensive as Clady, who may not hit the market at all. We would need no less than $10M/year for a top tier OT.

Draft option: Based on recent performance, I'm not sure that our 2014 QB is on the roster or even in the NFL. Drafting our "franchise" tackle in 2013 (whether he falls or we trade up) ensures that he has at least one season under his belt before our latest franchise QB hopeful comes onboard. The caveat on the trade up is that it would only be a few spots with only 2013 picks offered, b/c we might need our 2014 picks to draft our next QB (Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater, for example).

Also, to allow Gino's further development (if necesary), I'd make KC's Ryan Lilja an offer to get him the hell out of KC. He moved over from G to C when the season starter went down in Sept. He's 31 and is in the last year of a $7.5M/3y deal. Obviously, his contract would fit better if we went the Draft route on our tackle.


If Gino is not ready (Draft or FA -- KO -- Ryan Lilja (UFA) -- Yanda -- Oher) should be a much better OL for the 2013 season. In the spring of 2014 we can address RT if Oher continues to underperform.

[Carey]

We can defend or bash Flacco all we want but the fact of the matter is until he's able to step up into a pocket at least some of the time it's gonna be increasingly difficult for him to be as productive as we need him to be in order to be true contenders.

I dont think you need 5 world beaters on the O-Line but we definetely have to get better play from this group. If 2 to 3 of your lineman are giving ground after the snap on pass plays even if your QB has time he cant use proper footwork and step up in the pocket. Joe has such a strong arm that he can make some throws anyway but he's relied too much on that. It's really fools gold, just because you make a couple accurate throws that way doesnt mean you'll have long term success doing that. We have to figure out how to get him more clean pockets so that he can set his feet and drive the football more often, and i think the O-Line shuffle would be a step in the right direction(no pun lol).

[wickedsolo]

We can defend or bash Flacco all we want but the fact of the matter is until he's able to step up into a pocket at least some of the time it's gonna be increasingly difficult for him to be as productive as we need him to be in order to be true contenders.

I dont think you need 5 world beaters on the O-Line but we definetely have to get better play from this group. If 2 to 3 of your lineman are giving ground after the snap on pass plays even if your QB has time he cant use proper footwork and step up in the pocket. Joe has such a strong arm that he can make some throws anyway but he's relied too much on that. It's really fools gold, just because you make a couple accurate throws that way doesnt mean you'll have long term success doing that. We have to figure out how to get him more clean pockets so that he can set his feet and drive the football more often, and i think the O-Line shuffle would be a step in the right direction(no pun lol).

They can't even generate decent holes for Rice to get through...and it isn't like Rice is a hulking 230lb running back either. His forte has always been picking holes and staying behind lineman and finding the open spaces. There are no open spaces right now, so he can't do shit.

[LC_Ravens_87]

We need to secure one good tackle this spring...just one...b/c right now there isn't one on the roster. Everyone sees that right?

FA option: Cut salary, restructure where possible, and grab KC's Brendan Albert, for example, if he hits the market. He's good and won't be quite as expensive as Clady, who may not hit the market at all. We would need no less than $10M/year for a top tier OT.

Draft option: Based on recent performance, I'm not sure that our 2014 QB is on the roster or even in the NFL. Drafting our "franchise" tackle in 2013 (whether he falls or we trade up) ensures that he has at least one season under his belt before our latest franchise QB hopeful comes onboard. The caveat on the trade up is that it would only be a few spots with only 2013 picks offered, b/c we might need our 2014 picks to draft our next QB (Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater, for example).

Not saying that I wouldn't like to see what you are proposing...But the Ravens have never, ever, ever signed premier players at premium positions in Free Agency. Certainly not at the type of salary a LT would command. Even Boldin's (trade not FA signing)deal is below par to the the real #1 WR's (although still far to high at this point) get. Ditto for Mason.

The Ravens simply refuse to bid against the entire market for premium talent in free agency. It's clear as an organization they feel you never get fair value in that scenario. They only go to free agency for 2nd tier and below, which is not to say that is not the best route this offseason. But 2nd tier at LT is a little different than the positions they usually shop at on the FA Market.

So I see them doing what they always do when they have a gapping hole on the roster, they use draft picks either through trade (Boldin, Mcgahee, McNair) or via the draft itself. And if they do draft the guy, it may cost Multiple picks b/c you would imagine they will need to trade up to get a good LT for years to come (see Michael Oher at ~pick 26).

Ozzie and Co don't have another method for acquiring the type of player we all want to see the Ravens get at LT.

[Carey]

They can't even generate decent holes for Rice to get through...and it isn't like Rice is a hulking 230lb running back either. His forte has always been picking holes and staying behind lineman and finding the open spaces. There are no open spaces right now, so he can't do shit.

This too, if Harbs continues to ignore this we are in trouble. If you cant win at the line of scrimmage you dont have much chance at having a consistent offense. Hopefully a change is made soon.

[iggyman555]

Dear Harbage,

Please play Mckinnie - the OL cant get worse than it is now.

thanks

now go F yourself