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  1. #91

    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night



    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I think the problem is, people just wont let that play go where Oher missed his assignment on Troy, which led to the strip sack on Flacco, which btw was TWO years ago now. People need to move on. At least it will tell us if we actually need to draft or look for a tackle in 2013, hell if Oher plays well, we wont need to do anything on the OT front in 2013.


    I can't speak for anyone but me, but in my case that play has VERY little to do with my opinion of Oher's abilities/potential as a LT.
    Beyond that, the fact that he has led the entire league (at any position) in penalties since the day he entered the league isn't even the biggest contributor.
    From my perspective, it's all in the eye test. I simply cannot stand the way the guy passblocks. He stubbornly sticks to his lifelong technique of bodying rushers up and trying to force them out of the way with his massive size. problem is, he's not in High School anymore, and some of the players he goes against are almost as big as him, and almost every one is faster. He has GOT to learn to use his hands and extend them. If I had faith that he could or would make this technical change I would think he could be satisfactory, but besides a VERY LITTLE this preseason, I haven't seen much in the way of effort to overhaul his technique.
    His rushers simply get too much penetration too early and often. This technique also makes him extremely succeptible to the outside speed rush, and even worse agaisnt a guy that can set him up outside and spin inside. By simply extending his arms it would increase his allowable reaction time by a MAJOR factor, which would help him immensely in those situations.
    Mentally, he jsut ins't there, and I'm not sure he ever will be.




  2. #92
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    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I can't speak for anyone but me, but in my case that play has VERY little to do with my opinion of Oher's abilities/potential as a LT.
    Beyond that, the fact that he has led the entire league (at any position) in penalties since the day he entered the league isn't even the biggest contributor.
    From my perspective, it's all in the eye test. I simply cannot stand the way the guy passblocks. He stubbornly sticks to his lifelong technique of bodying rushers up and trying to force them out of the way with his massive size. problem is, he's not in High School anymore, and some of the players he goes against are almost as big as him, and almost every one is faster. He has GOT to learn to use his hands and extend them. If I had faith that he could or would make this technical change I would think he could be satisfactory, but besides a VERY LITTLE this preseason, I haven't seen much in the way of effort to overhaul his technique.
    His rushers simply get too much penetration too early and often. This technique also makes him extremely succeptible to the outside speed rush, and even worse agaisnt a guy that can set him up outside and spin inside. By simply extending his arms it would increase his allowable reaction time by a MAJOR factor, which would help him immensely in those situations.
    Mentally, he jsut ins't there, and I'm not sure he ever will be.
    We can agree to disagree. I will finally agree with you if he continues to play the same way as he did back in 2010 going into this year, but if he continues his impressive pre season form, I have to believe Oher is our long term solution at left tackle.

    The past is the past, anything can happen in the NFL, and Oher finally getting there would not be the most surprising thing happen in the league.




  3. #93

    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    We can agree to disagree. I will finally agree with you if he continues to play the same way as he did back in 2010 going into this year, but if he continues his impressive pre season form, I have to believe Oher is our long term solution at left tackle.

    The past is the past, anything can happen in the NFL, and Oher finally getting there would not be the most surprising thing happen in the league.
    And, this may surprise some people here, I will agree with you if he continues his preseason form. i have said multiple times that he looked improved for sure this preseason. He outplayed BigMac. There is no question in my mind that in limited action, he looked better then mac and his previous self. He even appeared to make SOME strides in what I consider hsi biggest weakness that he seemed stubborn to change.

    But, from where I sit, I need to see more. I'm not jumping over after limited action in the preseason, My eyes are open as is my mind, which surprises me, I just need to see more. From where I'm sitting, today, it's a mirage in the desert. By the end of the year that mirage could be the bright lights of Vegas. Not much would surprise me more.

    See, the past may be the past, but it is also the best predictor of future success.

    And from where I sit... I like the chances of BigMac staying between his passrusher and Flacco then Oher. He may not put in 100% or runblock very well, but to me LT is a passblocking position, and I want my LT to keep his man away from my QB, it's his first, second, and third priority. run Blocking is merely a PLUS beyond that in my book.
    Now the rest of the Oline, are run blockers first and foremest, passblockers second. Especially guards. Centers are slightly shifted as consistant effective snaps and linecalls probably top their priorities, and I can deal with centers that are helper blockers and weak in 1 on 1 matchups, as long as the scheme dictates the success of that style player.




  4. #94
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    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    If Oher plays well at left tackle this year, and kind of breaks out at that position so to speak, you absolutely extend him, you just cannot let left tackles hit the market these days. If he plays poorly, IMO they are going to have to look at Oher as possibly moving to guard.
    This is a great point. Oher has to look at this as his chance to get his 2nd contract as a LT as opposed to RT - which can be a huge difference. In some ways I have felt they might let him test free agency but if he performs well at LT, not so much of a chance of that.
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  5. #95
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    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    And, this may surprise some people here, I will agree with you if he continues his preseason form. i have said multiple times that he looked improved for sure this preseason. He outplayed BigMac. There is no question in my mind that in limited action, he looked better then mac and his previous self. He even appeared to make SOME strides in what I consider hsi biggest weakness that he seemed stubborn to change.

    But, from where I sit, I need to see more. I'm not jumping over after limited action in the preseason, My eyes are open as is my mind, which surprises me, I just need to see more. From where I'm sitting, today, it's a mirage in the desert. By the end of the year that mirage could be the bright lights of Vegas. Not much would surprise me more.

    See, the past may be the past, but it is also the best predictor of future success.

    And from where I sit... I like the chances of BigMac staying between his passrusher and Flacco then Oher. He may not put in 100% or runblock very well, but to me LT is a passblocking position, and I want my LT to keep his man away from my QB, it's his first, second, and third priority. run Blocking is merely a PLUS beyond that in my book.
    Now the rest of the Oline, are run blockers first and foremest, passblockers second. Especially guards. Centers are slightly shifted as consistant effective snaps and linecalls probably top their priorities, and I can deal with centers that are helper blockers and weak in 1 on 1 matchups, as long as the scheme dictates the success of that style player.
    good post i see your point of view, it's not easy to be sold on Oher as a long term solution yet, I can agree with that statement as we all want to see what Oher can bring to the table as starting LT now he's seasoned.




  6. #96
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    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    The fact that accross 21 games spanning 2 seasons at LT, Oher has yet to be anything but terrible. His best game of the 21 was below average. he gave 110% the whole time. He just doesn't have it.
    He played great in the first Pittsburgh game in 2010 when Flacco led the game winning drive. Flacco was not sacked that game and really was not pressured heavily, by Steelers standards.
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  7. #97
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    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    I hope this decision is based solely on performance and not personality.

    Beyond that, I will not be surprised to see BM starting at LT later this year.




  8. #98
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    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    This is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Horrible, horrible decision. Not only is Oher a terrible LT, but this puts Williams next to him at LG, which in turns puts an older, weaker, slower guy next to Birk. Don't see the logic in this decision, hopefully it does not end poorly but I have a bad feeling now that Oher is going to show once again that he's nothing more than a turnstile on the left side.




  9. #99
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    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhcforlife View Post
    This is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Horrible, horrible decision. Not only is Oher a terrible LT, but this puts Williams next to him at LG, which in turns puts an older, weaker, slower guy next to Birk. Don't see the logic in this decision, hopefully it does not end poorly but I have a bad feeling now that Oher is going to show once again that he's nothing more than a turnstile on the left side.
    I'm sure you know more than the coaching staff.




  10. #100
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    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I'm sure you know more than the coaching staff.
    I've disagreed with you, but I am starting to agree with you on Oher at LT for the new offense.
    Hopefully the fast pace is the reason and works in Oher's favor.
    If we get pretty well ahead on teams, it also may make sense to give them breathers on the Oline and put in the bigger guys who would then be fresh to run the ball. In that case, the opposing defenses have been put on their heals and would be getting tired. It would be a perfect scenario to then bring in the big (slower) boys.




  11. #101
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    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    I don't think that Bobbie Williams is going to last very long at LG, which is why I don't like this move. If Williams goes down, or just shows that he isn't that good anymore at 36 years of age, then the Ravens will be forced to shuffle their entire OL. If Oher can't handle the LT position, then the Ravens will not be moving him to OG. Oher can make more money as a RT then he could as a LG, which means he will not resign with the Ravens. I love the Ravens, so I hope I am proved wrong, but I have a feeling the Ravens are going to have huge OL issues this year, and it didn't have to be that way.

    A "no-huddle" offense is not the same as a hurry-up offense. It just means you get to the line faster to prevent the opponent from substituting players. McKinnie's conditioning would not have been an issue.




  12. #102

    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    I . Oher can make more money as a RT then he could as a LG, which means he will not resign with the Ravens.
    Sory, not even remotely close to true. Top end guards make more then ANY RT. Average guards earm more then almost any RT. RT is the lowest paid OLine position.

    Oher may or may not re-sign independant of his position. I'd honestly rather move on, unless he makes the switch to guard and excells. At tackle, I don't think he has value beyond a few Million per year. At gaurd, he could easily approach 7 to 8 million if he performs how I think he would.




  13. #103
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    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Sory, not even remotely close to true. Top end guards make more then ANY RT. Average guards earm more then almost any RT. RT is the lowest paid OLine position.

    Oher may or may not re-sign independant of his position. I'd honestly rather move on, unless he makes the switch to guard and excells. At tackle, I don't think he has value beyond a few Million per year. At gaurd, he could easily approach 7 to 8 million if he performs how I think he would.
    To my knowledge, Oher has never played LG before. What makes anyone think that he would be a top end LG. The better move would have been to let KO get his feet wet in the NFL as a LG, where he could get help. Even KO said himself that he was having trouble with speed rushers at RT. I think KO can become a very good RT, but IMO the Ravens have weakened themselves unnecessarily on the OL. I agree that if Oher cannot hack it at LT, the Ravens will probably let him walk when his contract is up.




  14. #104

    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    To my knowledge, Oher has never played LG before. What makes anyone think that he would be a top end LG. The better move would have been to let KO get his feet wet in the NFL as a LG, where he could get help. Even KO said himself that he was having trouble with speed rushers at RT. I think KO can become a very good RT, but IMO the Ravens have weakened themselves unnecessarily on the OL. I agree that if Oher cannot hack it at LT, the Ravens will probably let him walk when his contract is up.
    I too am not aware of him ever playing guard at any level.
    My supposition is based on a lot of factors from watching him play.
    -He gets a lot fo false starts, like more than many teams. Perhaps being closer to the center would help that.
    -he ihas extremely short arms for a tackle
    - he has very good footwork and mobility- he would make a great puller, IMO
    -he excells in the run game
    -he excells when he bodies his man up, chest to chest(he is the only tackle I have seen who prefers this technique, where as basically every guard does so
    - he has very poor hand work, not nearly as important as a guard
    -he is better when matched up with larger, slower stronger players that bull rush
    -he is weaker when matched up to smaller faster rushers that speed rush or spin move
    -I think he would benefit by having an Olineman on each side of him

    It's jsut my opinion, but when I watch him I see a guard forced into action as a tackle, and not the natural tackle he is.




  15. #105
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    Re: Osemele to start at tackle on Monday night

    All I know is that the Ravens themselves stated that one of the major goals in this past off-season was to improve the OL. This was at their end of year press conference, before they lost Grubbs. IMO, the Ravens have a worse OL this year then they did last year. McKinnie played well enough last year at LT for them to make it to within a dropped Lee Evans pass from making it to the Super Bowl. McKinnie is in better shape this year then he was at this time last year, so I don't understand why this change needed to be made. The Ravens are worse at LT, RT, and LG then they were last year, and their Center is another year older. They should have stayed with the line up of McKinnie, KO, Birk, Yanda, and Oher on the OL.




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