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  1. #25

    Re: Saints players win appeal versus NFL on bounty suspensions



    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    so they can still be suspended but they did say insufficient evidence of a bounty. Im confused where the "agree to injure" vs "pay to injure" comes in. To me if they evidence of one they should the other especially if theyre saying there was evidence of a "pay for play". Im sure itll make more sense in the next day or two. Goodell probably wont wait very long with this. Im sure he doesnt want them to play this weekend.
    No, the ruling made no reference at all to the whether the evidence was sufficient or insufficient. Merely that Goodell based his suspensions on the allegation that the players had violated 2 different sections of the CBA, even though he only has the authority to impose to impose discipline under one.

    And whatever his new ruling is, it won't take place before this weekend's games - the NFL has already said the suspensions are lifted and the players are eligible to play this weekend. In fact, the NFL actually granted the Browns a roster exemption (to 54) so they can put Fugita back on the active roster.




  2. #26
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    Re: Saints players win appeal versus NFL on bounty suspensions

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    Haloti has already withdrawn that statement because the article has been edited. What it boils down to is that the arbitrator made a purely jurisdictional ruling, i.e. the Commissioner has no authority to enforce Article 14 (salary cap violations); that is the arbitrator's territory. However, the Commissioner still has jurisdiction under Article 46 (conduct detrimental). The arbitrator made no ruling whatsoever on whether the Commissioner had sufficient evidence under Article 46.

    In fact, the ruling stated that:

    1) The conduct in question may be punishable under both Articles 14 and 46
    2) The NFLPA agrees with #1
    3) The arbitrator admits to having no idea whether the severity of the punishment was in any way related to the alleged Article 14 violations
    4) The Commissioner can exercise his exclusive jurisdiction to punish the players under Article 46, and the arbitrator could further punish them under Article 14.

    Once again, Vilma can celebrate, but I don't see where he's won much of anything yet. The arbitrator has clearly affirmed the Commissioner's power to punish him under Article 46.

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor have I ever played on on TV.
    This is dead on. I think ESPN et all are jumping the gun here.

    This is very much like the Ryan Braun ruling. This isn't an indictment of the evidence. The only issue here is Goodell overstepped by handing out punishment on the salary cap penalties.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #27

    Re: Saints players win appeal versus NFL on bounty suspensions

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    Haloti has already withdrawn that statement because the article has been edited. What it boils down to is that the arbitrator made a purely jurisdictional ruling, i.e. the Commissioner has no authority to enforce Article 14 (salary cap violations); that is the arbitrator's territory. However, the Commissioner still has jurisdiction under Article 46 (conduct detrimental). The arbitrator made no ruling whatsoever on whether the Commissioner had sufficient evidence under Article 46.

    In fact, the ruling stated that:

    1) The conduct in question may be punishable under both Articles 14 and 46
    2) The NFLPA agrees with #1
    3) The arbitrator admits to having no idea whether the severity of the punishment was in any way related to the alleged Article 14 violations
    4) The Commissioner can exercise his exclusive jurisdiction to punish the players under Article 46, and the arbitrator could further punish them under Article 14.

    Once again, Vilma can celebrate, but I don't see where he's won much of anything yet. The arbitrator has clearly affirmed the Commissioner's power to punish him under Article 46.

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor have I ever played on on TV.
    All true - My comment was my own speculation on WHY Goodell chose to confederate the two arguments when he made his initial ruling.




  4. #28

    Re: Saints players win appeal versus NFL on bounty suspensions

    It could end up being significant, depending on the evidence, because some of the players may have been penalized more for the money side of things (like Vilma) rather than actual intentional attempts to injure.

    In other words, Goodell hated the whole scheme, and penalized the "ringleaders" more than the grunts because of it, but if the violations are looked at as separate pieces, then maybe the ringleaders/money-providers actually did less (just paid for performance) than the grunts/guys who were trying to earn the money (intending to injure).

    It will be interesting to see if Goodell reduces them just to try to end the distraction, and if so, by how much.




  5. #29

    Re: Saints players win appeal versus NFL on bounty suspensions

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    It could end up being significant, depending on the evidence, because some of the players may have been penalized more for the money side of things (like Vilma) rather than actual intentional attempts to injure.

    In other words, Goodell hated the whole scheme, and penalized the "ringleaders" more than the grunts because of it, but if the violations are looked at as separate pieces, then maybe the ringleaders/money-providers actually did less (just paid for performance) than the grunts/guys who were trying to earn the money (intending to injure).

    It will be interesting to see if Goodell reduces them just to try to end the distraction, and if so, by how much.
    damn good theory. Its possible vilma will be vindicated after all of this.
    -JAB




  6. #30

    Re: Saints players win appeal versus NFL on bounty suspensions

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    damn good theory. Its possible vilma will be vindicated after all of this.
    Not likely - at least, not if you believe Gregg Williams:

    "In Monday's meeting, the NFL gave Vilma a sworn affidavit from former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams that the New Orleans linebacker offered $10,000 to any teammate who knocked quarterback Brett Favre out of the January 2010 NFC Championship Game"

    Link to the artice:
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/83...-roger-goodell

    And the affidavit:
    http://assets.espn.go.com/pdf/2012/0...msdocument.pdf
    Last edited by MarkS; 09-17-2012 at 06:27 PM.




  7. #31

    Re: Saints players win appeal versus NFL on bounty suspensions

    Goodell and NFL still look bad.

    Vilma has since Tweeted that he has 9 affadavits stating that he did not offer any bounty. And that The Gregg Williams affadavit was signed just 3 days ago. This would mean that Goodell had no such evidence at the time he gave out punishments.

    I was jsut watching this news on SportsCenter.

    Sounds really shady on Goodell's part if true.




  8. #32
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    Re: Saints players win appeal versus NFL on bounty suspensions

    JUST having an affidavit (or 9) doesn't mean anything. So both sides look silly when they say they have affidavits and start keeping an affidavit score card, like Vilma is doing.

    But when combined with the totality of this, I still think something went on and they got caught.

    The only way I see this ending bad for the league is if the Williams affidavit is all they have. But from everything I am reading, the league is holding their cards (read evidence) close to the chest. They leaked the video which shows Hargrove bragging about the bounty and now we know it was Williams himself that gave the league a statement.

    I am willing to bet this will be a slow burn by the league, culminating in Vilma looking like a fool.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #33
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    Re: Saints players win appeal versus NFL on bounty suspensions

    Vilma got pwned. Will be interesting to follow I guess, although their season looks almost done starting 0-2. Gives them about a 12% chance of making the playoffs.
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